Blythe & Berwick and B & B Tours

Blythe & Berwick of Bradford was I believe the basis of what became the Bradford operation of West Yorkshire Road Car.
In the early 50's B & B Tours became the Samuel Ledgard Bradford operation.
Was there some link historically between Blythe & Berwick and B & B Tours ??

Gordon Green

07/11/13 - 11:47

I'm not an expert on anything West Yorkshire (geographically or otherwise). There is, however, a long history of defunct companies actually laying dormant at Companies House (in London where all public limited companies are registered) only to resurface many years later with a new operating name. Two immediately spring to mind: Crossley came back to life as Leyland National and Crosville as a later, independent Grey Cars. It is just possible that this is the answer to this conundrum - but now over to the real West Yorkshire (and Ledgard) experts.....

David Oldfield

07/11/13 - 17:13

My understanding, and I am open to correction, is that WYRCC took over the stage operations of Blythe and Berwick, leaving them with just the "Tours" business. Ledgard later took over this "rump" B and B Tours. Probably a great over simplification, but something akin to this, so if I am way off here, I, too, would love to know the exact truth!

John Whitaker

08/11/13 - 06:48

David and John, this was quite a complicated question and I'll search my literature fully when I've more time but you're not far off the way it happened.
Just from memory, I believe that Harrogate and District "merged" with the original Blyth and Berwick, thereby creating quite an empire for the two previously unconnected concerns. I may be wrong, will check later, but I believe that Blyth and Berwick only retained the haulage side of their business, and that "B & B Tours" was started soon afterwards, and had four bus services and a daily express from Bradford to Blackpool. The latter enterprise was taken over in 1935 by the ever expanding Samuel Ledgard and, after the death of that worthy gentleman in April 1952, became "Samuel Ledgard (Bradford) Limited. I expect this exam paper, hastily scribbled from memory, to be returned covered in red corrections and marked "2 out of ten."

Posed Wartime picture here of "B & B Tiger CKW 267 in Menston Village with "Willebrew" equipped conductresses. This coach was registered in Bradford for "B & B" and was delivered in their lovely colours of red light blue and cream/white as one of a batch of Ledgard vehicles - in this picture it is repainted in main fleet livery while still licensed to the subsidiary.

Chris Youhill

08/11/13 - 08:12

Oh dear, "more haste, less speed" as they say. I've made two errors in the caption, for which I apologise. Firstly, one lady has a Willebrew, the other a Bell Punch or Williamsons equivalent, and the coach is still in its original livery. The "Menston" on the destination display is obviously superimposed, and clumsily so, in the laboratory. The publicity purpose of this posed Wartime picture is not known, nor is the source of the photograph.

Chris Youhill

08/11/13 - 11:57

Thank you David, Chris and John for your responses.
I look forward to learning more Chris, if time permits, and in particular which stage routes were operated - obviously Bradford-Menston-Harrogate was one (how did that escape the original merger on wonders.
The picture is of great interest - my Mother was born in Menston and the location outside the Village Hall and Church is where I well remember the 'whistle and reverse' manoeuvre every half hour (10 past the hour to Bradford - 40 mins to Harrogate).
One final thing - the dark hat seems familiar - is it the same gentleman who was sorting out the errant scaffold pole ??

Gordon Green

09/11/13 - 06:11

A lovely shot of a handsome vehicle Chris. The livery sounds most attractive as well. Interesting that the entrance appears to be of the porch type, generally more associated with buses. Considering your 'exam paper' was "hastily scribbled from memory", it reads very well. Harrogate & District acquired Blythe & Berwick in 1928, the merged concerns then becoming the West Yorkshire Road Car Company. As you state, Blythe & Berwick retained the haulage side of the business, becoming Blythe & Berwick (1928) Ltd, and B&B Tours was formed as a subsidiary not long afterwards. Am I correct in thinking that when Samuel Ledgard acquired B&B Tours at a later date, 'Sammies' retained the B&B name and livery for quite some time afterwards?

Brendan Smith

09/11/13 - 12:11

Some interesting points there Gordon. Firstly, despite the trilby hat, Mr. Tapscott was away in the thick of the War, where he sustained awful injuries resulting in him having a metal plate in his scull - although he bravely carried on his job at Ledgard's, and skilfully too, often it was obvious from his expression that he was in pain with it. I can't recognise the two behatted chaps in the picture but one is almost certain to be Mr. Tommy Kent, the Bradford manager. As you no doubt recall the coach is in the wrong position for the normal reverse - the usual method being to arrive and turn right, reversing out towards the Malt Shovel.
B & B numbered their services (on paper only of course) thus :-
1 Bradford - Harrogate (Daily)
2 Otley - Leathley (Fridays only)
3 Otley - Burley Woodhead (Fridays only)
4 Bradford - Blackpool (Daily)
- Otley - Wetherby (Daily and operated from Otley depot by SL)

Brendan, yes, Ledgard acquired B & B in early 1935 and vehicle taken over retained their lovely livery until repainting was due. Sammy's policy was immediately to have one vehicle in each new batch delivered in B & B livery and mainly registered in Bradford accordingly. Until the outbreak of WW2 those concerned were :
1935 - TS7 AKW 849 (part of the "CUG" batch) which as the attached picture shows displayed "LEDGARD" in the nearside destination glass.
1935 - TS7 BUA 402 (twin to BUA 403)
1936 - TS7 BKW 909 (part of the "EUG" batch)
1937 - TS8 CKW 267 (part of the "GUA" batch)
Then in 1948 - PS1s FAK 661/2 (part of the "LUB" batch and delivered in standard SL livery)
The porch type entrances were very wisely with a view to suitability for stage carriage services in their later years.

Chris Youhill

10/11/13 - 17:27

As far as I can work out the story of B&B Tours Ltd is this (corrections welcomed!) . . .
During September 1927 the Harrogate & District Road Car Co Ltd considered the absorption of its subsidiary company Premier Transport (Keighley) Ltd, (acquired 18th June or 14th July 1926, depending on source) - it was suggested that if this should take place then the H&DRCCo should change its name to the West Yorkshire Road Car Co Ltd. The proposed changes were ratified at a special shareholders meeting on 5th December: H&DRCCo changed its name with immediate effect, and the assets of Premier were transferred to the new WYRCCo on 31st December 1927/1st January 1928. (This is the version of events detailed in Keith Jenkinson's "Northern Rose: the history of West Yorkshire Road Car Company", Autobus, 1987. I must admit that I'd always thought that H&DRCCo changed its name to WYRCC on absorbing the Blythe & Berwick passenger operations [as Brendan suggests], which is the version of events outlined in Keith Jenkinson's earlier book "West Yorkshire Road Car Company", TPC, 1977. However, as Jenkinson's 1977 work as H&DRCCo-B&B "merger"/name-change/absorption of Premier all taking place on 1st January 1928, I think his later work, with the befit of further research is probably the correct version.)
WYRCCo subsequently purchased the bus and coach operations of Blythe & Berwick Ltd of Bradford on 16th January 1928, but Blythe & Berwick remained in business as haulage contractors as the reconstituted firm Blythe & Berwick (1928) Ltd. Six months later, in June 1928, B&B Tours Ltd was formed as subsidiary company . . . although it soon passed from the control of the Directors of Blythe & Berwick into the hands of the Kendall family.
Initially the company operated in the private hire and E&T areas - by 1932 B&B offered 100+ destinations from pick-up points at: Morley St, Bradford; Market Place, Shipley; Towngate, Wyke; and West Lane/Market St, Thornton - this side of the business had been strengthened in 1929 by the purchase of the three-vehicle Richmond Transport Co, Bradford . A daily all year Bradford-Keighley-Blackpool express service was commenced shortly after the company was founded.
B&B started stage-carriage operations with the purchase of the goodwill of the Bradford-Shipley-Menston-Otley-Harrogate service of Charles Booth's five-vehicle "Blue Bus Service", Otley, on 1st October 1928. (This service had originated in May 1922 as an Otley-Harrogate operation by Joseph Robinson, Otley. On his death in 1924 the service was continued by his son Norman, who acquired the competing service of Francis Blakey [started ?April 1923] in June 1925, but then went bankrupt the following month. King Bros., the Otley Ford dealer that had supplied and then repossessed some of Robinson's fleet, continued the operation until it was taken over by Booth the following month. Booth subsequently extended the service from Otley to Shipley and Frizinghall, and then later into Bradford.) Further expansion of stage-carriage services came shortly after the acquisition of Booth, with the opening of Otley-Menston-Burley Woodhead and Otley-Pool-Leathley Mill services. On 4th May 1929 B&B applied for a licence to operate a Bradford-Manchester express service. The licence was initially refused, but a second application later that month was granted subject to the booking of end-to-end fares only - although the service commenced on 2nd May it was soon withdrawn due to problems in obtaining licences in Manchester.
In September 1929 an application was made for an express service from Bradford-London via Leeds and the Great North Road. After two refusals a modified application to run via Worksop was submitted - this application was granted on 14th October, with the proviso that all passengers from Bradford must travel to Worksop or beyond . . . but the service never ran, although it remained licensed to the end of 1930. B&B coaches did however reach London - on hire to Bentink &Ensign Motor Services Ltd of Doncaster (whose service ran via either the Great North Road, or Leicester and Northampton, depending on which source one reads), and for whom Richmond Transport had been the Bradford booking agent.
A Bradford-Morecambe express service was applied for on 2nd February, 1930 . . . and refused. However, a weekly Bradford-Ilkley (Semons Home) express service was commenced in 1931. When the licence renewal application for the Bradford-Blackpool express was heard in November 1933, agreement was reached that the winter timetable should be operated in conjunction with the Leeds-Blackpool service of R. Barr (Leeds) Ltd, and the Harrogate-Blackpool services of J. Seanor & Co (Harrogate), and W. Pyne & Sons (Starbeck), all of which converged at Whalley. (Following Samuel Ledgard's acquisition of the company, inter-availability of period return tickets with Ledgard's Armley-Blackpool service was authorised from 27th September 1935.)
At the time of Samuel Ledgard's acquisition of the company on 1st April 1935 13 vehicles were operated; the Directors were Harold Goodwin, Lydia Kendall, and Albert Kendall; the registered office and booking office were at 14/16 Great Horton Road Bradford; the main depot was at Olympia Garage, Thornton Road Bradford (the company having moved there from smaller premises in Ventnor Street during 1934), with a dormy-shed for one vehicle in Court House Street, Otley, leased from the Borough Garage (this was closed in the month of the Ledgard takeover, the solitary vehicle moving to Ledgard's Otley depot). Following the Ledgard take-over business continued pretty-much as usual for some years: the registered office remained at 14/16 Gt Horton Road, until the company was reconstituted as Exors of S Ledgard (Bradford) Ltd in May 1952, when it moved to 216 Armley Road, Leeds; and the red/Parsons' saxe blue/white livery and BTB logo continued to be applied until immediately after the end of WWII, when standard Ledgard livery became the order of the day.
Regarding the Otley-Wetherby service listed by Chris, from what I've read this service was acquired by Ledgard from Arthur Thornton, Otley, on 9th March 1934 - who had started the service in May 1927, almost immediately after the Otley-Lawnswood-Leeds operations of the Otley & Lawnswood Motor Bus Co, in which he was a partner, had been acquired by Samuel Ledgard (on 18th February). (I must acknowledge Keith Jenkinson's, "Ledgard Way", Autobus, 1981, and "Early Buses in Bradford and Shipley", Omnibus Society, 1977, as sources here.)
Does anybody know why "Exors of" was included in the legal titles of the businesses following Samuel Ledgard's death? Was it just a quirk to reflect that the business was being carried on by the Executors of his estate? or was there an underlying legal reason, perhaps related to the fact that his main business interests had never been incorporated?

Philip Rushworth

11/11/13 - 15:28

Just a quick thank you to Philip for his very comprehensive and well researched clarification of the B and B question. To Chris too, for his contribution. There were several contradictions in my mind from reading published material on the subject, and I feel these have been really well clarified, and it is pleasing to have a firm grounding upon which to base one of my favourite interests, namely WYRCC and Good Old "Sammie"

John Whitaker

12/11/13 - 06:09

Philip
As the one who posed the original question may I echo John Whitakers thanks for the comprehensive answer and information you have provided.
I never expected quite so much and I am most grateful.

Gordon Green

06/01/14 - 08:35

Philip is correct that the transfer took place on 16th January 1928. At that stage there were 41 Motor buses, 12 Charabancs and 2 Ford service lorries owned by Blythe & Berwick Limited. In addition there were 2 new Lions KW 2650 and KW 2651 bought from Messrs. Tillotson's and paid for by Blythe & Berwick but actually delivered to West Yorkshire Road Car Co Ltd.

Ian

20/07/14 - 07:49

I have only just come across this thread, as I have not looked at the site recently but decided to do an search on Blythe & Berwick as I am part owner of KW 1961 a former Blythe & Berwick Leyland Lion PLSC previously owned by Ken Blacker. There has always been some confusion about the connection between the two but I actually believe that there was no direct connection. Blythe & Berwick was merged with Harrogate & District and Premier, and the news of the amalgamation was announced very early in January 1928. William Hodgson Berwick stayed on as traffic manager with the newly formed West Yorkshire Road Car Co whereas Philip Blythe went away and set up Blythe and Berwick (1928) Ltd which was to concentrate on the road haulage side of the business as well as the sale of reconditioned vehicles for the haulage industry (often buses rebodied as wagons obtained from a variety of operators) I am not sure who ran Blythe & Berwick (sales & repair) Ltd which was set up to oversee the motor car repairs and sales which Blythe & Berwick were involved in. This side of the business survived as Berwicks Vauxhall dealership on the site of Berwicks original charabanc depot on Canal Road, Bradford until the 1980s. B&B Tours Ltd was established in March 1928, and advertised a service between Bradford and Blackpool and tours and excursions from a Charles Street address but this was 25A and not 23 which was Blythe and Berwicks address. I am led to believe that Albert Kendall had been the traffic manager for Blythe and Berwick, and along with William Obank, a builder of Shipley formed the B&B tours co with a John W Vint as secretary. The Obank family probably had other transport interests as there was an Obank Haulage at Dudley Hill into the late 60s, and Robert Obank is one of the directors of Roco truck builders of Low Moor. Not long after the appearance of B&B Tours, WYRCC placed an advert in the local Telegraph & Argus to make the public aware that there was no connection between the two operators. There is photographic evidence that the rear of Blythe and Berwick buses still bore the name after the takeover, but with the Charles Street address painted over and Chester Street substituted. The small parking ground which was later to house the WYRCC booking office had indeed been a Blythe and Berrwick petrol station in the 20s. I cannot remember when the area on either side of Chester St became a bus station, but up until the point when terrace houses were demolished, all services started in Little Horton Lane, Chester Street or Great Horton Road as Bradford Council would not allow use of Morley Street due to it being a tram route.

David Hudson

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