Any Ideas

I'm gradually getting that job lot of photos I bought into some semblance of order, however, there are the odd ones where I cant get any information about them, this one for instance. From the radiator grill it looks as if it could be an Austin or Morris Commercial, but I would have though it was too big for either of them, and it wouldn't be the first time I've been way off the mark. Any clues to be had from the vast pool of collective knowledge of contributors?

Ronnie Hoye

18/10/12 - 10:46

Guess One: Maudslay

Joe

18/10/12 - 10:47

A possible longshot is this a Maudslay of some kind. The radiator bears some resemblance to their design.

Chris Hough

18/10/12 - 14:34

I am confident that this is a Morris Commercial PP/R (petrol), or OP/R (Saurer diesel) chassis. They were manufactured between 1949 and 1951. They were in the same size and weight category as the Commer Avenger. Not sure as to the bodywork - Wadham built a lot of these, but this is not Wadham.

John Stringer

20/10/12 - 06:11

This is definitely a Morris Commercial OP or PP. As John Stringer points out, the majority of these, and there weren't very many, were bodied by Wadham, but not this one. How about Churchill?. The OP/PP pre[dated the Bedford SB (just) and was put on the market at about the same time as the Commer Avenger. Wadhams were also Morris dealers and were to Morris Commercial what Duple was to Bedford, but on a much smaller scale. Morris and Wadham hoped to clean up with this coach, but sales hardly got off the ground. It was clearly old-fashioned compared with the Vega-bodied OB and even the Avenger had a more up-to-date appearance. Apart from Wadham, I have only ever seen one of these bodied by Plaxton, and this is not one of those!

Here is a picture of FRV 629, a 1951 Morris-Commercial OP/Wadham C31F new to Pioneer, Petersfield.

Philip Lamb

20/10/12 - 10:26

Sorry to waver from this topic slightly, but the Morris Commercial radiator grille has stirred my happy memories of the 1940s greatly. Those of us ancient enough to remember the fabulous dodgem cars at Joyland in Bridlington will recognise the classic outline immediately - for those luxurious little motors had a chrome fitting almost identical in outline and shape.

Chris Youhill

20/10/12 - 12:47

As the one who bores for England on balance and integrity in design I think both vehicles shown here have the requisite qualities but, agreeing as ever with Chris Y, I think the Commer (KYR 118 below) has it by the bucket load.

David Oldfield

20/10/12 - 12:47

I think you can be virtually certain that the body is by Churchill. All of their usual features are there, the V shaped louvres over the windows, the side flash is exactly the shape they used, so are the destination apertures. Note also, the three strips of beading behind each wheel. Obviously more common on the Commer Avenger, with a more rounded front end, the squared front of this one disguises it a little, but I'd say definitely a Churchill.

Chris Barker

20/10/12 - 15:07

A close-up view of the top vehicle would suggest that it actually has a proper radiator, with the bodywork built around it. The lower one, however, has the more common Morris-Commercial plate grill. I notice that the lower one has a Portsmouth registration, presumably because it was where Wadhams were based, unless Churchill were based in the vicinity.
What do we know about Churchill's?

Chris Hebbron

21/10/12 - 08:31

Wadhams were based in Waterlooville outside Portsmouth. Vehicles completed there were sometimes registered at the Portsmouth taxation office, and on occasion with Hampshire County Council. Pioneer was based in Petersfield, further up the A3. Churchill was a minor builder about which I know nothing. It built bodied for a short period only, with examples recorded on Commer, Austin and now Morris Commercial. The M-C grille also appeared on trucks and vans, and was sometimes referred to as the 'padded shoulder' radiator. I do not recall ever having seen this style as the radiator itself, always on a removable plate as on FRV 629.

Philip Lamb

23/10/12 - 17:15

Not much information seems to be available about Churchill Constructors Ltd, which was a company based in Norwich. Its main coachbuilding activity was on Commer Avenger and Bedford SB, though it certainly did body a small number of heavyweight chassis. This is a copy of the company's 1952 advertisement.

Roger Cox

24/10/12 - 07:48

Add two more chassis types to the list of those bodied by Churchill.
Bullock's of Cheadle had NLG 208, a Foden PVSC.
Vagg's of Knockin Heath had EUJ 787, a Thornycroft.

Dave Farrier

24/10/12 - 07:49

The vehicle was KDD 516 a Morris Commercial OP/R with Churchill body new with Perrett, Shipton Oliffe in 1950. One of a pair - KDD 515 being the other.

Martin

24/10/12 - 07:50

Thx, Roger, every little helps.

Chris Hebbron

31/10/12 - 07:03

Churchill also bodied one (and I think only one) Leyland Royal Tiger. MPW 444 was a PSU1/15 with C41C body, new in 1951 to Norfolk Coachways, Attleborough. I have seen a photograph of it, but cannot remember where. Imagine the Commer depicted above with an extension beyond the front axle, and that's more or less what it looked like.

David Williamson

31/10/12 - 10:18

There is a pic of MPW 444 here.

David Call

31/10/12 - 14:45

According to the "Crossley" book by Eyre, Heaps and Townsin, Churchill bodied a couple of SD42 coaches, one of which was BSN 442, delivered to Foote of Milngavie, Glasgow in 1950.

Roger Cox

03/11/12 - 06:11

BSN 442 was an SD42/7 with C35F body. The other Crossley was an SD42/9 (ie a 30 footer) with C37F body delivered in 1953 to Conway and Griffen, Grimethorpe. It was the last Crossley SD42 (by chassis number) to be built.

David Williamson

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