Albion Demonstrator

In the early 60's I briefly worked for a Coach/Bus Sales Company. I was given an Demo Albion (rear engined) service bus with Strachan body and tasked with trying to sell it to operators in, and around, the Welsh Valleys - with little success I might add! Any clues or info would be appreciated from my learned fellow enthusiasts. As I remember it drove and handled very well too.

Nigel Edwards

01/10/14 - 07:25

A quick hunt around on the net discovered EGG 559C, an Albion Viking demonstrator with an Alexander Y-type body. I have to say I had not previously encountered this vehicle - most demonstration vehicles become quite well-known.

David Beilby

01/10/14 - 11:56

Nigel, are you able to name the Coach/Bus Sales Company you worked for, and could you be more precise about when you worked there? When you say 'service bus' do you mean one with bus-style (rather than coach) seats, and can you remember the approximate seating capacity?
David Beilby's suggestion of EGG 559C doesn't seem to fit the details too well.

David Call

02/10/14 - 08:03

Here's a shot of EGG 559C www.flickr.com/photos/david_love/

David Call

02/10/14 - 08:05

What about the Wallasey Nimbus on this page? http://webspace.webring.com/

John Lomas

02/10/14 - 08:05

Sniffing around the net shows that Alexander & Highland had quite a few Alexander bodied Albion Vikings- a rear engined single deck bus with a forward entrance. They were the last (it says) Albion buses. There are a number of pics of these buses "masquerading," it says, as mid-engine until you found a grille in what ought to be the boot door! Not sure where Strachan came in, though... Commercial Motor and others complain that you couldn't hear the engine from the front (which is why early Atlanteans acquired rev counters I think).

Joe

02/10/14 - 08:06

David, As far as I recall it was 1962/3, I was with "Birmingham Coach Sales" (a not very big organisation) an offshoot of Eatonways Coaches run by the Foy's - Father & Son. The Demo was 'non coach' which is why I described it as a service vehicle. Painted cream all-over, manual box appearance not unlike the R192's with Strachan bodies!

Nigel Edwards

02/10/14 - 11:28

This is by far the nearest I have been able to get to coming up with something matching the details given. It's Eatonways, and it's an Albion (rear-engined Viking, I think). However its body is by Park Royal, and it dates, probably, from 1966. www.brindale.co.uk/ach/prv_site/

David Call

03/10/14 - 07:14

David, very many thanks for your research. This could well be it though I still have "Strachan" jangling around this old muddled brain . . It could well be that, after I had left, they decided to integrate it into their fleet? though I certainly have no recall of the lavish polished alloy ! Again, much appreciated.

Nigel Edwards

03/10/14 - 07:15

I've found this potted history of postwar Albions on the AEC Society forum: http://middx.net/aec/board/
It seems to say that the first rear engined Albion was the Viking VK43 in 1965 but there was a one-off front engined Viking VK41 in 1963, bodied by Alexander.

Gary T

03/10/14 - 07:16

That's a very strange body (Park Royal) on the Eatonways Viking.
Its sidelight/turn indicators look to be located on a squared off protruding panel below the windscreen, completely unrelated to any other aspect of the styling. And there's no bumper down below.
Indeed, the protruding square light panel looks as though it would serve as an unintended bumper - it certainly seems to protrude more than anything else at the front end !

Petras409

03/10/14 - 07:17

Joe mentions that Alexander (the operating company) had quite a few Albion Vikings, with Alexander bodies. Certainly the fleet numbers of the "MNV" class with Alexander Midland went into the 70s. I do remember sometimes travelling on MNV2 (EMS 91C) in the 1973-76 era, in Falkirk. It was allocated to Larbert depot, had a coach style Y-type body (long wondows), but was painted in blue bus livery, and had bus seats (about 40, I think). It was often used on a local route between Falkirk Calendar Riggs Bus Stn and Camelon estate, and was the only bus needed for the service, As a passenger, the engine was audible, but I can't speak for the driver. The main memory I have is of the gear change. The driver (usually the same man) would pull away from a stop, rev the engine right up, and move to change gear. He would then hold the gear stick in neutral for a very long period, while the engine note died, and speed fell. He then moved up to the next gear. By the time he had done this, the bus was almost at the next stop, and no further change was needed! I can't say how other Vikings behaved on service or coach duties, but I have always wondered why Alexander had such a quantity of these machines, with this ponderous gear change, and the apparently wasted space at the rear behind the seats where the engine was located. Later, Alexander turned to Fords for small or medium bus work, where seats could ble placed the full length of the bus, but the engine protruded at the front, restricting passenger access at the front door, and broadcasting it's noise loudly to all. At least the driver could keep up with gear changing fromm the engine noise!

Michael Hampton

03/10/14 - 17:41

Joe mentions that Highland had quite a few rear-engine Albion Vikings. This photo shows AV13 (DFS 10C), taken at Thurso Depot in 1980. By this time it has been fitted with bus seats. The registration number suggests that it was new in 1965; I don't think this model was in production in the early sixties.

Don McKeown

09/10/14 - 13:41

The Alexander-bodied Albion Viking demonstrator EGG 559C was recorded as visiting Aldershot & District on 13th/14th April 1966. Other makes were also demonstrated around that time, but A&D continued to place their single-deck orders with AEC for Reliances. This is as noted in Peter Holmes' book, "Aldershot Buses".

Michael Hampton

10/10/14 - 14:59

EGG 599C also spent a few days with, of all companies, Provincial, in Feb 1967, preceded by another demonstrator Ford R192/Strachan RNO 959D. You can see a photo of EGG 599C next to last photo at this page.

Chris Hebbron

10/10/14 - 17:39

Quirky, wonderful Provincial. I would absolutely have LOVED to see wonderful Alexander Y-types with Provincial, and the Albion Viking quirkiness would just finish the picture. Thanks, Chris, for the posting.

Michael Hampton

25/06/16 - 06:30

I believe that all rear engined VK43 Vikings with Alexander Y-type bodies were actually built under sub-contract at Potters factory at Dunmore in Belfast.

Bill Headley

27/06/16 - 05:46

I've only just come across this query. The only rear-engined Albions ever built for the home market with non Alexander bodies were the six Park Royal Royalists built speculatively on Viking VK43L chassis to be sold through dealers. The first of these appeared at the 1966 Commercial Motor Show in Eatonways livery, but that doesn't necessarily imply that Eatonways had any intention of buying it. It would however tie in nicely with it being demonstrated by a dealer subsidiary of Eatonways. In fact it was subsequently registered JCS 819F and sold to Clyde Coast Services. I came across it there soon after, and the owner was quite pleased with it, apart from the fact that the roof kept working loose!
However, the body was definitely Park Royal, and it was definitely a coach, not a service bus.

Peter Williamson

28/06/16 - 06:35

Below is a link which takes you to a couple of photos of the Eatonways coach, plus details of the speculative coaches. Look down page to "The 1967 PRV Royalist" LINK: http://tinyurl.com/hmwj6jw
I quite like the style, boxy bodies were often attractive.

Chris Hebbron

28/06/16 - 10:37

You said specifically in your posts that this was 1962/3 that rules out the VK43L as prototype and Demonstrator EGG 569C was built in mid-1965.
It had an Alexander Y Type body with long bays and 40 semi-coach seats, however unlike the Central SMT examples but like those for the Alexander Companies and Eastern Scottish it had a two-piece power door and destination and route number equipment above the windscreen. The two Y-type Viking Demonstrators can be distinguished from one another in a number of ways from other quarters than the rear, but one of the easiest ways to tell BWG60B from EGG69C is the fact the first had more windows on each side; when demonstrating EGG569C also carried "Albion Rear-Engined Viking" on its cove panels. In his Y-type book, Harry Barker notes that it carried no Walter Alexander body number, having been an experimental product constructed in 'the side shed' at Falkirk.
The Park Royal bodied coach that became JCS 419F was the only other rear-engined Viking demonstrated by Leyland Motor Corporation. It was in Eatonways livery at the demonstration park at the 1966 Earl's Court Commercial Motor Show. Parked next to it (in a Michael Dryhurst picture in my collection) was YTB 771D; which carried BET-derived Strachan B43D body 52282 and looked more like their Ford R192s and 226s than any of the three Viking demonstrators or the four Wallasey Nimbi. (The only buses with a resemblance to them I can recall were the contemporary West Hartlepool Leopards.)
However, it was a Leyland Panther Cub PSRC1/1 numbered L53747 and carried the legend "Leyland Rear Engined Panther Cub" on each side. Notably the Viking coach was demonstrated on trade-plates while both buses were registered; thus the coach could not carry fare paying passengers; but when Mr Frazer bought it for his share of Clyde Coast operations he was able to give it a 1967/8 F-suffix, thus it seemed new to the Clyde Coast clientele, though having been extant for about 18 months by then.
YTB 771D was the only Leyland Motor Corporation demonstrator with a Strachan body, and it probably visited Wales as the first of the two customers for new Strachan bodied Panther Cubs was Thomas Brothers of Port Talbot.
Only two other flaws, it's four years too late and semi-automatic, as were all Panther Cubs.
That AEC Society article was good! I hadn't read it since writing it. Like that post, in this I've used Albion of Scotstoun by Paul Adams and Stuart Milligan, The Leyland Bus by Doug Jack and the Alexander Y Type by Harry Barker as sources when writing this. Also these additional sources: www.buslistsontheweb.co.uk and Demonstration Buses by Gavin Booth (Bus Enthusiast Publishing, Edinburgh 1984) were required.
So to summarise, LHF 31-4 are Strachan DP31F bodied Albion buses but not rear engined although were built in the early 1960s (delivered to Wallasey Corporation Motors in November and December 1962): none are recorded in Demonstration Buses (which is slim, and mostly accurate, although such an omission is by no means proof either way). BWG 650B was an Albion bus, built by October 1963 (it appeared at that year's Scottish Motor Show at Kelvin Hall) it was not rear engined, not bodied by Strachans but was used as a Demonstrator (although I've only ever seen pictures of it working as such for Alexander (Midland) out of Perth Depot in their livery with their legal lettering). EGG 596C was an Albion and rear engined and a bus (though given as C40F by the PSVC) it was a demonstrator but was not built in the early 1960s. JCS 819F was an Albion, rear engined and a demonstrator but neither a bus nor Strachan bodied, it was built by September 1966 but not registered until December 1967. All of the Albions were manual gearbox. YTB 771D was not an Albion, nor manual, but was a bus, Strachan bodied and a Demonstrator. It was first registered in September 1966.
The paragraph above reads as though the next paragraph should start "Now draw a Venn diagram and evaluate." if one was to do so "rear-engined Strachan bodied Albion bus demonstrator early 1960s" would amount to zero on the documentary information available to me.
However the last documented Albion Nimbus demonstrator in the Gavin Booth book was 1959 Willowbrook bodied 314 NTJ and it is more than conceivable that Leyland-Albion dealers would have borrowed an operator's vehicle after 1960 as the Nimbus specification was revised that September to include an Albion rather than David Brown gearbox (NS3A) and no later works demonstrator was built.
One of LHF 31-4 could conceivably have been all-over cream when built, as the pale yellowish-green window surrounds could have been added after delivery, but not rear engined. Like EGG 569C all four Wallasey buses had semi-coach seating, but for 31 rather than 40, and the mostly cream livery was a way of distinguishing their suitability for hires.
LHF 660 was also an Albion, being a Victor VT21L coach. It was a 41 seater with a Plaxton Embassy II body, particularly rare on this type as most carried, like demonstrator BMV19A, Duple (Northern) Firefly bodies. Although new to Cox of Wallasey in January 1963 the only picture I have seen of it is with Rennie of Dunfermline, who also ran EGG596C at one point.
Michael Hampton's reminiscences of MNV 2 sound about right. New it was C34F and used on Bluebird coach tours (as were all of MNV 1-8) but was later converted to 40 bus seats as he says, DFS 1-12C delivered to Eastern Scottish and Alexander (Fife) DXA 401C were also 34 seaters. The constant mesh gear-change (requiring double de-clutching) is just as slow on a VK43 today as MNV 37 made clear back on the streets of Glasgow's West End last Sunday.
Bill Headley should know that (as well as BWG 650B and EGG 569C) Walter Alexander (Coachbuilders) Ltd of Falkirk bodied _all_ Scottish Bus Group Vikings, except for the bulk of the 1966 programme order, the portion for the three Alexander companies, comprising 40-seat semi-coaches MNV 11-16 (FWG 977-82D) MNV 17-25 (HWG 520-8E) FNV 13-25 (FXA 713-25D) NNV 16-33 (GRG 416-33E). It was only those 46 delivered in 1966/7 that were sub-contracted to Potters and carried both builders' body numbers. Originally, Potters were to have built the bodies on Central AC2-5 (FGM 102-5D) as well but as these four had been ordered with one-piece manual doors, twin-outlet rack bowers per seat-pair and plain roof domes with night glass and screen box below the windscreen either side of the demister inlet it was quicker to build them at Falkirk. Of course a couple of years later Potters subcontracted twenty bodies on Bristol RELL to Falkirk. In total Falkirk built 168 VK43s and one VK49 (similar but semi-automatic) for the Scottish Bus Group so of a total of 215 SBG Vikings Falkirk built 78% and Potters 21%.
Although BWG 650B was the only VK41 bodied as a bus for Great Britain my article on the AEC forum does make it very clear that a large number of VK41 and VK55 front-engined Vikings were bodied as school buses for Northern Ireland's Education and Library boards by M.H. Cars, Potters and Alexander (Belfast). Jersey Motor Transport took some as well and Bridgeton Bus Garage is home to a Sparshatt-bodied VK41 pantechnicon new to a remover in Bognor Regis in 1968.
Highland had the fourth largest fleet of VK43s all second-hand; likewise they owned the second largest Lowlander fleet, all pre-owned.
Now does anybody know if the Foy father and son who owned Eatonways and Birmingham Coach Sales were related to the Foy brothers who owned Garelochhead Coach Services between 1951 and 1980?

Mr Anon

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