6357 AD Bedford SB Duple Super Vega

Richards Bros, Moylegrove livery suits this handsome vehicle well. The reg is Gloucestershire I think and has a feel of Black & White. Can anyone tell me its history please.
This pic was bought from East Pennine TG and is from the R. Marshall Collection.

Les Dickinson

12/08/12 - 07:34

Again, this is only my opinion, to me this body looks really good on a front engine chassis, but never looked right on an under floor such as an AEC or Leyland, where as the Burlingham Seagull was the exact opposite, a classic on an under floor but not at all suited to a chassis with the wheels right at the front

Ronnie Hoye

12/08/12 - 11:18

Right idea Les, AD could have been issued to Black & White vehicles and those 4 number 2 letter registrations were used fairly late on but 6357 AD started life with Perret from Shipton Oliffe, just east of Cheltenham. It is indeed a Bedford SB1 and was new in 1960. But to suggest Black & White would operate such a vehicle, I can sense some turning in graves in that Gloucestershire spa town! Thanks for the picture, reminded me of some interesting times in Pembrokeshire in the 1970s when a fascinating collection of vehicles were being operated by Silcox of Pembroke Dock, Jones of Login, Collins of Roche and you could still find some real gems at Edwards of Maenclochog. I will post an example when I can dig out one.

David Grimmett

12/08/12 - 14:40

Ronnie, it's not just you, I agree with your views, and David, as you say, Black & White would never have entertained such a vehicle, but I'm glad some-one did.
I arrived in Cardigan about thirty years ago so all that wonderful mix of vehicles between here and South Pembs was still very much in evidence. I have an article in Buses Yearbook 2013 about the formation of Jones Login which you might find interesting (unless heavily edited) due out very soon I understand. Thanks again,

Les Dickinson

12/08/12 - 17:34

Even though almost on my doorstep, I’d never heard of either Perrett or Shipton Oliffe. However, for the record, here’s the meagre information I could glean.
By 1871, a shopkeeper, Charles Makepeace, owned one or more horse-drawn vans, which provided a carrying service between Shipton Oliffe and Cheltenham. Walter Perrett, Makepeace's successor before the First World War, started a motor coach service, which continued to run passenger services to Cheltenham and Northleach until 1998.
At one time, they operated a Bedford OB / Duple Vista OPK 510, preserved at one time. In 1972, they purchased 3 Bedford YRT’s (EDD 713L TO EDD 715L) with Willowbrook C51F bodies. In 1993, DAF SB2700 (K712 RNR) with Caetano C53F body was purchased. In 1996, they purchased DAF SB3000 (N998 FWT) with Ikarus C55F body. They seem to have disappeared some time after that.
However, a company called Peter Perrett Coaches Ltd, at Shipton Oliffe, was created in 2003, but dissolved in 2009.

Chris Hebbron

13/08/12 - 08:54

One of my early memories is of a school trip on a Bedford SB3 of this type to Chester. There were two plus a 4MU3RA/Duple Continental (which I missed out on). I agree on both counts with the other comments of the aesthetics of the Super Vega and the Britannia - not to mention the Seagull.
One of the best, and least common, vehicles of this layout was the Albion Victor VK41L - most commonly with Duple Firefly body. It had the Leyland 0.375 engine and Albion 6 speed gearbox. Two things prevented this model having the success it deserved. (i) The Bedford VAM/Ford R192 - with set back front axle, like the medium and heavyweights. and (ii) The Bedford SB13 which was better known and had the same Leyland engine. (Better the devil you know was a killer for many potentially good vehicles.)

David Oldfield

13/08/12 - 11:28

David, you mention Leyland engines in Bedfords, 'W&B Kerr of Wallsend' an independent close to where I live had a couple of Bedfords similar to the above, and at least one of them had a Leyland engine which I assumed 'perhaps wrongly' had been fitted as a replacement unit. Both vehicles were new to Taylor Bros in North Shields, who were taken over by Hall Bros of South Shields. Hall Bros eventually became part of the Barton group, but I think these vehicles were sold off before that as they were still in Taylor Bros livery when Kerr's bought them. Were Leyland engines always an option, or did the practice first start with owners fitting then as replacements?

Ronnie Hoye

13/08/12 - 14:14

According to Circle fleet history PGL2 Glos independents, 6357 AD was withdrawn by Perrett in 8/71 and sold direct to Richards.
Chris H - further information on Perrett is they were active at Shipton Oliffe until July 2000, ceasing shortly after Jim Perrett's death. One of his sons, Peter, then set up his own operation, initially from the same site.
Also, for many years, presumably the 1960s and 70s, they regularly provided coaches at busy times for Associated Motorways, along with many other independents, so its quite possible this Bedford DID grace Cheltenham Coach Station at some time, alongside Black and White coaches.
My own first memory of travelling to Cheltenham Coach Station was on a summer Saturday from Nottingham in 1965 on an almost new Plaxton bodied Ford Thames 36 (R226) owned by Netherfield Coaches of Nottingham. My connecting coach from Cheltenham to Bristol was a Burlingham bodied Bedford SB dating from the 1950s, duplicating to Bristol only. Those were the days!

Bob Gell

13/08/12 - 14:16

Ronnie. There was quite a long period when Leyland engines were a standard option for Bedfords, where a diesel engine was required. Perhaps a list of codes might help - and Peter could post them elsewhere as well.
SB1 Bedford 300 D (Diesel)
SB3/VAM3 Bedford 300 P (Petrol)
SB5/VAM5 Bedford 330 D
SB8 Leyland 330 D
SB13 Leyland 375 D
VAM70/VAL70 Bedford 466 D
VAM14/VAL14 Leyland 400 D
The VAM and VAL 70s marked the end of this period, but many people believe the VAM14 and VAL14 were the better engined vehicles.

David Oldfield

13/08/12 - 14:17

I believe I am right in saying the SB8 came on the market in 1957 with the Leyland 350 engine. It was superseded by the SB13 with the larger 370 engine in 1963. Over the years I suspect there have been hundreds of "upgrades" by operators to their SBs, quite a number being from Petrol to Diesel, and I suspect some fleet records might not be accurate as we all make the mistake of assuming things and that little squiggle in our notes, behind SB could be 3, 8 or G.
I only had the joy of driving one petrol engine SB and it flew on the roads of Somerset. It had spent a lot of its life on Jersey and I think it enjoyed the new-found experience of traveling in top gear.

David Grimmett

14/08/12 - 06:57

One of the happiest times of my driving career was driving AHD 960C at Stanley Gath Coaches at Dewsbury. This was a Bedford SB13/Plaxton C41F and was named The Duchess after Mrs Gath. The last time I saw the coach it was on a low loader and I heard the chassis was sold to Pakistan and the body scrapped.

Philip Carlton

14/08/12 - 11:42

Talking of Leyland-engined Bedfords and of 'upgrades', I remember being told by one of the Ward brothers (of Middlestown near Wakefield, and later creators of the Ward Dalesman etc.) that they once fitted a Bedford SB with a Leyland 0600 that had come out of an ex-Leeds PD2! The conversion had involved a considerable amount of butchery to the chassis and I can't imagine what the clutch and rest of the transmission thought about it - or what the Vehicle Inspectorate would have made of the front axle loading.
They seemed to thrive on this sort of thing, as in the yard was a VAS which they had rebodied with what I seem to recall (but may well be wrong) was a Harrington Crusader off an SB, with a section cut out of the middle and the two remaining bits stitched back together. I wish I'd taken photographs now.

John Stringer

14/08/12 - 11:43

This is a bit off-thread, but reference to Stanley Gath reminds me of an intrepid trip by air to Prague in the early days after the velvet revolution. We wandered into a cafe by the river & heard- quite unusually there then- some northern English voices.... so we asked where from... Yes luv, they replied, we've come with Stanley Gath!

Joe

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