Remembering Samuel Ledgard - 45 Years on

In October of this year it will 45 years since the last Samuel Ledgard bus turned into the depot and ended an era.
The company was missed by many for quite a while afterwards, and by a significant few for the whole 45 years. There can be few other long defunct independent bus operators who have their own society, holding get-togethers and events to keep the memory alive as do the Samuel Ledgard Society.
My own first real recollection of Samuel Ledgard's buses, was back in 1957 when at the age of nearly six I accompanied my father and auntie to Leeds to see her off from Leeds Central Station on a train to London. We travelled from our homes at Stump Cross near Halifax by Yorkshire Woollen District's route 23 (Halifax to Leeds Direct) on an HD 85xx registered Roe-bodied PD2/3 - stalwarts of YWD's Halifax routes for years - alighting opposite the Station. After what seemed like ages to me standing around in the depressing gloom of Central Station, auntie's train finally departed - hauled by the first green locomotive I had ever seen, and the first with a nameplate. My father suggested that we should catch the train back to Halifax, but I protested, being on the one hand totally fascinated by steam trains when at a safe distance, whilst on the other utterly terrified by them close up.
So we wandered out into Wellington Street, and having taken in the many and varied passing buses, and observed the comings and goings from the Coach Station, I caught a glimpse of a double decker further along the street, distinctive in blue, with a cream band and green roof, and asked which company it belonged to. My father was not a bus enthusiast, but knew a thing or two about them nontheless, and he said it looked like one of Samuel Ledgard's. Until then all the bus companies I had encountered were named after places, so the notion of one being named after some bloke seemed like it needed further investigation.
I nagged him into walking round into King Street to have a closer look. It was a brand new AEC, to me resembling the ones recently delivered to Hebble and making the same impressive noises, and I did note the unusual registration number - 1950 U. Despite since being told that this batch normally worked the Leeds-Ilkley service, it was on this occasion working Leeds-Bradford, and so my father suggested that we should go home via Bradford, and I was on that bus like Jack Flash! I was only a young kid, but I still remember the experience - the sound effects and the smell of newness. I already adored the new roaring, whining Hebble Mk. V's, and sampling this Ledgard version must I'm sure have further reinforced what became a lifelong love of the type.
Later, on being presented with a copy of Ian Allan's 'British Bus Fleets No. 9 - Yorkshire Company Operators' I then learnt what a fascinating fleet Legard's was. Still quite young and green, I learned the company was called 'The Executors of Samuel Ledgard', and I suspect like many others was aghast at the the thought that poor old Samuel had been executed, and the evil perpetrators had taken over his bus company!
I joined the local bus enthusists' club in 1965, becoming its youngest member, and the first organised depot visit I went on took in various depots of Bradford City Transport, West Yorkshire Road Car and Ledgard's at Armley. The Depot was very dark and gloomy and photographs were not possible, but then we were ushered round some back streets and into the open yard which was actually upon the roof. Here there were many and varied buses nosed in herringbone fashion, some of which were reversed out for us, but unfortunately my father's previously trusty 1940's bakelite Purma Special camera was playing up, and the shots all came back double-exposed.
To my surprise I was asked by one of the staff there if I would like to try out the cab of one of the buses (No Health & Safety rules then - no high-vis vests or sticking to yellow hatched walkways). Of course I did, and actually tried out quite a few under someone's watchful eye. I remember being very disappointed in the Leylands - they seemed very uncomfortable, old fashioned and spartan with an enormous steering wheel. I liked the Daimler CVG6, but decided there and then that the AEC Regent was by far the most superior, especially the RT - sitting up higher on that big comfortable seat with everything to hand and good all-round visibility. I was now even more an AEC man.
Towards the end of its existance I did manage a few rides on their buses as a fully fledged enthusiast on my bus spotting rambles, usually from Bradford to Leeds, and always a great experience.
At the end, an enthusiasts' group organised a farewell tour of the depots using Ledgard's UUA 794 - a Leyland Tiger Cub with Burlingham Seagull coach body. Needless to say I was there, having been bought my own very first camera just for the occasion, having previously been only allowed to shoot the odd few shots on my father's. Here I present the photos I took then, plus a couple of others taken a bit later................

 

I do hope you enjoyed viewing my Samuel Ledgard gallery.
Much of the information for this article was provided by the excellent book "Samuel Ledgard - Beer and Blue Buses" by Don Bate (Regent Transport Publications), 2005.
Oh yes, and Chris Youhill - Keep on telling us about life at Ledgard's (and elsewhere) - I'ts Really Entertaining!

 

John Stringer
06/2012

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30/06/12 - 11:30

My word, John, what a superb piece of nostalgia. I'm envious of you having colour film at this time, and well done for capturing such a fine cross-section of Sammy's fleet at that time. Although I have similar memories and experiences as yourself, I will stand back to let Chris Y wax lyrical about his beloved firm. However, one abiding memory of the Armley roof top location was the intense smell of what I always thought was Marmite from a nearby factory. Ring any nasal bells? Your mention of the "direct" YWD service from Halifax reminds me of the good old days when inter-urban passengers had a fast service at their disposal, instead of today's experience of having to (literally) go round the houses at every road end. Finally, and perhaps reflecting my own bias, why no mention of the trams outside Central station? Surely a Halifax lad must have been slightly curious?

Paul Haywood

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01/07/12 - 08:35

A fascination collection of photos. - Chris Youhill will salivate madly when he sees them. As red LTE RLH's ran around my way (although RLH2 was a green one, I was always fond of them, very much out of the LTE mould. I always liked the Leyland PD1A/ECW ex- Bristol vehicles, too, looking so different with Leyland radiators. It was intriguing to see the little Austin A30/35 and you could see quite a few of these with bus operators of the time.

Chris Hebbron

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01/07/12 - 08:36

Ah yes Paul, I'd forgotten the strange aroma that pervaded Armley Depot - I do remember it now you mention it.
I did myself wonder when writing the introduction to the photos why Leeds trams were not part of these memories, but I have a feeling that they might have stopped running along Wellington Street by 1957. Maybe someone with more knowledge of the system could confirm this or otherwise.

John Stringer

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01/07/12 - 08:39

John, superb gallery and text. As a young south(yorkshire)erner, Ledgard wasn't on my radar apart from entries in BBF. Two things which I do agree with you about, though - the excellence of AEC and Chris Youhill.

David Oldfield

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01/07/12 - 08:44

A real toast is due to John for this superb presentation - the photographs are a great selection, and the captions comprehensive and well composed. The vehicles in the line beyond BCK 422 are :-
ARN 393 Leyland PD1 ex Preston.
??? ??? unidentifiable Leyland PD
PNW 91 Leyland PD/12 bought new in 1952
DCN 8** 831 had been regular at Otley but was possibly withdrawn and it may be one of the other seven of the batch.
The PD1/ECW just showing at the end is most likely to have been LAE 12, but just could have been KHY 395
Just one tiny correction if I may make it John, and that is that even KUP 949 was taken over by WYRCC and was bought by Don from them. I have sent Peter a couple of views of the bus being collected by Don and I from the Harrogate depot of West Yorkshire on a miserable Winter day which matched our sentiments at the passing of the our old Firm. Another similar sale concerned AEC Reliance/Burlingham UUA 791 which was bought by Tony Edwards, Tony Jewson and Eric Waller and with them immediately founded Independent Coachways of Horsforth - this coach was also collected from Harrogate Depot and I drove it on its first ever private hire outing shortly afterwards on an evening trip to Hebden near Grassington.
Paul's "custom detection" of the 24/7 odour surrounding Armley depot was uncannily accurate and whilst it wasn't actually quite Marmite - yet - it soon would be as the factory concerned manufactured yeast !!

Chris Youhill

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01/07/12 - 09:46

Yes, John - you will be correct in not seeing any trams in 1957. The last service trams passed Central Station in July 1956 (Tong Road routes), but the link to Kirkstall Road works remained until November 1957, so it was highly unlikely you would have seen a tram at that time. Sorry - not only for my error, but for you not seeing them! Glad you have got a response from Chris Y. He deserves his own website.

Paul Haywood

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01/07/12 - 15:11

Excellent site and great article on Samuel Ledgard - 45 years on by John Stringer. The Samuel Ledgard Society (mentioned, thank you!) will be celebrating 100 years since the arrival of Sam Ledgard's first charabanc in a special event on Saturday 13th October 2012 at Pudsey Civic Hall. More information can be obtained at The Samuel Ledgard Society Website

Barry Rennison

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02/07/12 - 07:35

Thanks to everyone for your kind comments about the gallery. I only wish I'd been able to take more photos on that day.

John Stringer

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28/08/12 - 08:28

I don't think it is correct to say that when Ribble re-bodied and re-engined 22 of its batch of 38 1947 Brush-bodied Leyland PD1As they also changed the gearbox. I have never heard this before, and I happened to drive ex-Ribble 2509 (BCK 452) on several occasions when it was in service with Laycock's of Barnoldswick - it definitely retained a constant-mesh gearbox.

David Call

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28/08/12 - 10:08

The Marmite smell mentioned by a number of contributors pervading the area around the Armley depot was a by product of Phillips Yeast Poducts who used Ledgards old brewing premises to brew their yeasty products. This combined with the smell form Blakeys foundry made Armley an aromatic place in the fifties and sixties! The last trams in service on Wellington Street in Leeds ran in 1956.

Chris Hough

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09/09/13 - 09:00

This afternoon I discovered my original notebook containing details of the vehicles I saw on the day of the Ledgard Farewell Tour. So for Chris Youhill's benefit here are details of those vehicles further down the line - some of which we were uncertain about: ARN 393, BCK 421, PNW 91, DCN 839 and LAE 12.
Others noted there but not featured in the photo were: GDK 402, BCK 415, MXX 148, AUM 414C, BCK 633 and MLL 828.

John Stringer

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09/09/13 - 16:30

First of all, the operators which purchased AEC Regent IIIs with Birmingham-style bonnets were Bradford, Devon General, Hull - and South Wales, rather than Rhondda, as has been duly acknowledged by John elsewhere on this forum.
I was at college in Leeds from 1967 to 1969 and about a week before the Ledgard takeover I went on what I think was essentially a tour of Ledgard routes - this was organised by the Leeds Transport Touring Group and used one of the PNW PD2s. I can't remember that we actually visited any depots.
One thing which I do remember is the fact that we were given, by the tour organisers, an information sheet giving details of the tour - it may have incorporated a then current Ledgard fleet list, I'm not sure now. One thing which was stated was the fact that, despite the tour starting and finishing in Leeds, both vehicle and driver were actually based at Otley depot. The driver didn't hesitate to offer the correction, he was based at Ilkley rather than Otley. Going by how many vehicles I think operated from Ilkley depot, I would say that it would be home to, perhaps 15/16 drivers. From my experience of this forum, I would imagine someone will immediately tell me who the driver was on this tour!
In the spring of 1969 I went on a few trips in Don Bate's Tiger, KUP 949. I remember two of the trips being to LVVS at Lincoln, and to the then new LCT Bramley garage. There were probably other trips I went on, one perhaps to a rally somewhere, again I'm not sure now.

David Call

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09/09/13 - 16:30

Thank you John for that most valuable discovery, enabling us to be certain of the "stars" in the long line up at Otley depot.
I can, hopefully, clear up an impression which you gained on your childhood trip from Leeds to Bradford on the brand new 1950 U. The initial intention of the "wicked Executors", prior to the delivery of the six Regents, was for two to be allocated to Otley and the other four to Armley headquarters. I remember the Otley manager, Mr. Jack Tapscott, triumphantly telling me that he had "baffled them with science" and had presented them with his convincing data to the effect that the Otley average fleet age was far higher than that at Armley and that the proposed allocation would not do - no doubt reeling from such a statistical and unexpected tirade they uncharacteristically gave in without a whimper and so we received 1951/2/3/4. The basic Leeds - Guiseley - Ilkley half hourly service required four vehicles, three from Otley (crewed by Otley and Ilkley staff) and one from Armley (crewed for one return trip by Otley so as to enable its return to Leeds depot at the end of the day - another story). Normally the other Otley vehicle was employed on the basic hourly Leeds - Otley - Ilkley service - this was joint with West Yorkshire whose noble Bristol Ks and the temperamental front entrance Lodekka DX 82 (soon to be banished to United) were unable to match our performance. Of the two Armley Regents, one was normally on the Leeds - Guisley - Ilkley service, and the other "anywhere" although very often on Leeds - Pudsey - Bradford as you experienced. Until Mr. G.F.Tate died in 1943 he had a share in the Leeds - Otley - Ilkley service which was taken over and augmented Ledgard's mileage share. The usual vehicle, used also by Ledgard's still in Tate's red and cream, was petrol engined WN 4759. Its possible that the destination blind layout was responsible for the style used in all Ledgard's new PD1s and PD2s after the War. I remember as an infant seeing WN in Ilkley and the destination blind had moved over to the right, displaying ILK via OTL!!
Incidentally my own poor old Dad - a railway and sportsman through and through - was for years dragged meekly on buses everywhere, particularly when we frequently stayed with Grandma and Aunty Doris in Bridlington. My mother's lone desperate contribution to my all absorbing interest was to inform me that Williamsons ex Devon General Lion, DV 4117 meant "God willing" which apparently "DV" may mean in some quarters.

Chris Youhill

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10/09/13 - 08:45

Well David, its a very small world and I too was on the tour that you mention. We did visit one or two garages and there is a fine group photo taken at Ilkley depot yard. The driver was Keith Allister (Ilkley depot) and the bus was PNW 91. The tour was organised by Tony Edwards who, immediately after the sale, started Independent Coachways with Reliance/Burlingham UUA 791 and I drove the first journey - an evening private hire to Hebden near Grassington.
You may be surprised to hear that Ilkley depot had only seven crews and had NO buses. It was in effect what is known as a "running shed" and accommodated five "visitor vehicles" each night (these being any five from Otley depot) except Mondays when there were only four (that's another story connected with scheduling - I did an article on that subject which I'll submit soon for this site). There was a night cleaner, an excellent chap who could drive or conduct if necessary on the first departure if there was an absentee. There were also early and late garage men who could conduct if required. There was no fuel facility as this was not necessary again due to the vehicles being from Otley depot, although when built in the late 1920s the depot had a pump and still had three maintenance pits which were boarded over. Originally only high enough for single deckers, the building was ambitiously rebuilt by Ledgard in the 1950s to allow double deckers to enter.

Picture here of the "harsh old days" when the d/ds had to live outside, not ideal.

Chris Youhill

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10/09/13 - 08:45

DV - basic schoolboy Latin, Chris.

David Oldfield

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10/09/13 - 16:30

Many thanks David O for the clarification. I actually greatly enjoyed Latin for the first two years at Secondary School, but we were then obliged to choose between Latin and Chemistry for the final three years. It is a mercy that the Nation survived my three years of Chemistry because my attempts at the practical experiments were dangerous indeed - my mind was on petrol engined Lions, diesel Titans, and wooden seated CWA6s - none of which figured in the syllaBUS for some odd reason.

Chris Youhill

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11/09/13 - 06:20

Yes, Chris, I was pretty sure I'd hear more about that trip, either from yourself or some other Ledgard authority.
I was a bit unsure as to whether we'd visited depots - I presume we did visit Ilkley, Otley, and Yeadon. I was pretty sure we hadn't visited the main depot at Armley, even though we travelled past it. I remember there was an RTL turning in as we approached - the ex-Silver Star one, I think, but I can't be sure. As for Bradford depot, that was, of course, nowhere near any Ledgard routes. Surprisingly, I think I only visited that depot on one occasion - despite often staying with an aunt who lived in Lidget Green, i.e. not very far away.
I had remembered that Ilkley depot didn't have its own allocation - but I could remember approximately how many buses it could hold. In estimating a driver establishment of 15/16 I had assumed a turnout of six buses, some in all-day service, some not. Clearly I was way out on that point.

David Call

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14/09/13 - 08:00

David, Ilkley depot could hold nine vehicles but the usual five were always parked in the five eastern bays, as shown behind the photo of JUB 129 and AUB 490. Even in the "single deck only" days any stored or withdrawn vehicles were put in the western end over the one time maintenance pits (boarded over). Some fascinating and mysterious gems were stored in there in those days before widespread and accurate enthusiast press was to be freely had.

Chris Youhill

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02/04/21 - 06:52

To pick up on Chris Youhill's second post of 10/9/13, at Morecambe Grammar School we had a Chemistry teacher who tried to blow us up twice. Needless to say, he 'retired' a not long afterwards.

David Call

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03/04/21 - 05:48

I read this splendid article some years ago, not to mention innumerable reminiscences and anecdotes from Chris Youhill. Yesterday evening I came across an aerial photograph of Armley depot with its buses on the roof on the Facebook page entitled "Flashback the glory years - buses, coaches and trolleybuses" - for anyone who might be interested.

Stephen Ford

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10/11/21 - 06:23

In my post of 9/9/13 I reported that the AEC Regent IIIs with Birmingham-style bonnets had been supplied to Bradford, Devon General, Hull, and South Wales, rather than Bradford, Devon General, Hull, and Rhondda, as given by John Stringer in his original text. John had also inferred that the new bonnet had been a consequence of collaboration between Birmingham City Transport and Crossley. I have read recently (goodness knows where) that it was actually a result of collaboration between Birmingham City Transport and Guy Motors, although the first vehicles to feature it were Crossleys, for Birmingham, of course. As to Daimler and Guy making it their standard offering, it was Daimler's standard offering on the CV-series until superseded by the so-called 'Manchester' style bonnet, as for Guy it was the standard offering until the end of Arab production, but only where a full bonnet was supplied. Exposed radiators continued to be available on Guys (until when I've no idea), late ones I can think of being the two for Huddersfield and at least one 30-footer for Blue Line/Reliance.
I have also read that the Regent IIIs with the Birmingham bonnet had the bonnet supplied by Crossley (by then in the ACV group with AEC), which would make sense if Crossley had already supplied Birmingham.

David Call

 

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