Doncaster Independents

Doncaster Independents - Two

A week or so ago a large selection of scans were emailed to me from David Oglesby headed as 'Several old Doncaster area bus photos'. As there is already a Doncaster Independents gallery by Roger Cox and seeing most of the shots were of independents I decided to follow the film industry and headed this gallery as Doncaster Independents - Two. I have added captions to some of the shots, researched mainly from Peter Goulds website, but if anyone can come up with captions for the rest it would be much appreciated.

Blue Ensign

LDT 256 an AEC Regal IV with a Burlingham C37C body new in 1952.

LDT 210 an AEC Regal IV with a Burlingham C37C body new in 1952.

FDT202 a Crossley DD42/7 with a Scottish Commercial Motors H30/26R body new in 1948.

BUS 106 an AEC Regent I with a Weymann H30/26R body new in 1938 to Glasgow Corporation as their No. 540 purchased by Blue Ensign in 1952.

FDT 202 again decorated for the coronation I presume.

KDT 393 an AEC Regent III with a Roe H31/25R body new in 1951 to Doncaster Corporation as their No. 122 purchased by Blue Ensign in 1955.

758 NDT an AEC Regent V with a Roe H41/32F body new in 1964.

Cressy

No registration plate visible shot when new perhaps.

Felix

LWY 942 fleet number 33 an AEC Regent III with a Roe H31/25R body new in 1953.

EYG 622 fleet number 24 an AEC Regent with a Northern Coachbuilders H30/26R body new in 1946.

OWX 283 fleet number 34 an AEC Regent III with a Roe H32/26R body new in 1955.

JWX 259 fleet number 31 a Leyland PD2/1 with a Leyland H30/26R body new in 1950.

VWY 179 fleet number 39 an AEC Regent V with a Roe H33/28R body new in 1958.

HWX 899 fleet number 27 an AEC Regal III with a Barnaby C35F body new in 1949.

XWX 795 fleet number 40 an AEC Reliance with a Roe C41F body new in 1959. Looks like it is being used as a mobile home though the lack of lights may make it a little less mobile.

VWT 355F fleet number 48 an AEC Reliance with a Plaxton DP51F body new in 1968. Re-numbered to 1015 after its move to SYPTE in 1976.

Leon

FRW 587 was, as Chris Barker suggests, originally a demonstrator for Transport Vehicles (Daimler) Ltd and was a Daimler TV45/2 with chassis number 12580 and Willowbrook B35F body number 6001 new in 1946. The chassis type would suggest that it was the second of a batch of test chassis built in 1945 and was the prototype for the CVD6. Leon acquired it in March 1955 from J.W. Kitchin, Pudsey. and it was withdrawn in March 1962, passing to a breaker in 1964.
It had passed from Transport Vehicles (Daimler) Ltd. to J.W. Kitchin, Pudsey in 1952 and then to Leon after Kitchin withdrew it in 1954. (Caption provided by John Kaya)

Leon's (Finningley) 42 (EDK 921) was a Daimler CWD6 with Massey Bros H30/26R body. It was new to Rochdale Corporation as number 21 in 1945, In 1956 it was sold to North (dealer), passing in July 1956 to Leon's as number 42, being withdrawn in January 1959. (Caption provided by Dave Farrier)

Premier

Registration looks like EWU 684

Rossie

HWX 753 a Daimler CVD6 with a Barnard H30/26R body new in 1949.

T Severn & Sons

BWW 692 fleet number 9 a Leyland LT7 with a Barnaby B34F body new in 1937.

JWR 532 a Leyland PS1/1 with a Yeates C33F body new in 1949.

FWW 480 a re-bodied Leyland PD1A seen here with its 1955 Roe H31/25R body, when new in 1947 it had a Northern Coachbuilders H30/26R body.

KWW 513 a Leyland PD2/10 with a Roe H31/25R body new in 1951.

13/02/15 - 16:30

An incredible range of pictures. Two questions:
FDT 202 - is there any reason for captioning this as an AEC Crossley? Re-engined perhaps?
KDT 393 - did it really only last four years with Doncaster? If so why?

Phil Blinkhorn

13/02/15 - 16:34

Leon's (Finningley) 42 (EDK 921) was a Daimler CWD6 with Massey Bros H30/26R body. It was new to Rochdale Corporation as number 21 in 1945. In 1956 it was sold to North (dealer), passing in July 1956 to Leon's as number 42, being withdrawn in January 1959.

Dave Farrier

13/02/15 - 17:07

T Severn & Sons is incorrectly shown as T Stevens & Sons.
FWW 480 (of Severn's) carried a Northern Coachbuilders body from new, rather than Northern Counties. This is an error in the LTHS (ex-Peter Gould) fleet list, I'm pretty sure that the old-style Peter Gould list showed the correct details. 'Cressy' was simply a fleet name used by Severn's up to WWII.

David Call

13/02/15 - 17:12

Can only be my fault as as I did it. Sorry about that I have put it right, also thanks to Pete Davies & Philip Halstead for pointing out my mistake.

Peter

14/02/15 - 06:17

Am I right that KDT 393 shown here is Tony Peart's well known preserved Doncaster 122, seen here after its sale by Doncaster to Blue Ensign. Its sister bus, 121, was, I think, a Daimler CVD6. The story- if I have this right- is that Doncaster couldn't cope with new-fangled 8ft wide buses on the congested Great North Road through the town and sold these two: which then continued to run on the same streets, as has been pointed out. Was Tony's opinion that in reality they wouldn't fit the (new?) bus washers? Someone out there will know. Funny thing is that it is shown here with Blue Ensign using Doncaster Blinds- the 77 it claimed to be operating was the joint x3 municipal service to Sheffield (and at that time you probably couldn't use an H bus on this route anyway?)

Joe

14/02/15 - 06:20

I omitted to mention that Severn's continued to be referred to locally as the 'Cressy' right up to the PTE takeover.
In response to Phil B's queries, first of all I'm inclined to presume that the reference to AEC in the description of FDT 202 is a consequence of the fact that AEC and Crossley both subsequently became part of the ACV group. I remember that, as long ago as 1982, AECs were referred to in registration documents as 'Leyland AEC' and on tax discs as simply 'Leyland', even if they had been constructed long before Leyland and AEC came together. By that logic, a Crossley would now be 'Leyland Crossley' and 'Leyland' respectively.
As to KDT 393, it was apparently sold by Doncaster after only four years because, being 8' wide, it wouldn't go through the bus wash. The same applied to KDT 392, a Daimler CVD6, which was sold at the same time to Leon.
To get the story from the ultimate authority on Doncaster buses (Tony Peart), click here.

David Call

14/02/15 - 07:25

I have been back to Peter Goulds Blue ensign site and FDT 202 is listed as just a Crossley it is my fault that the AEC got in the caption, I have removed it. I haven't done right well on this gallery have I. No more galleries without copy from now on I think.

Peter

14/02/15 - 08:59

Fascinating gallery, with something of real interest in every picture. I like the Thornycroft eight-legger behind the Premier PS2 coach, too.

Ian T

14/02/15 - 10:38

Thanks for the replies. I queried the AEC Crossley caption because in well over 60 years of interest in buses including living in Stockport and Manchester and being well acquainted with people who worked at Errwood Park and for both MCTD and SCT, I've never come across this. Peter explains all but David's explanation may well have revealed something not well known. It rather reminds me of a similar situation in aviation where Boeing, having taken over large swathes of the US aviation industry renames types it did not design, but continues to build, as its own and back lists aircraft before a take over as its own. The Federal Aviation Authority accepts new builds as Boeing's but will have none of the nonsense such as Boeing DC9 for a 1966 built Douglas DC 9 which had already been "adopted" once when McDonnell and Douglas came together.

Phil Blinkhorn

15/02/15 - 05:28

I've been looking through the photos on the site and very good they look too, thanks for a job well done. I am pretty sure that the old Cressy photos will have been taken when Tommy Severn had his garage at the bottom of East Lane in Stainforth. I was told that he started with a lorry which would be used for freight all week then on Friday night fit it with seats for passenger transport on Saturday.

Dave Oglesby

16/02/15 - 06:52

I believe that Leon's single deck Daimler FRW 587 was used originally as a demonstrator. I haven't seen any other post-war Daimler with the front wings built up like that and the drivers dash panel totally enclosing the offside wing. The bodywork was by Willowbrook and very stylish it looked too!
Incidentally, I visited Blue Ensign's former premises last year, the garage and small office block are still standing but they are in a very poor state now, a small part of Doncaster's transport heritage still exists though!

Chris Barker

16/02/15 - 06:54

Did anybody pick up the new photo of HWX 899 in its original Felix livery what great condition They used to keep all their buses absolutely immaculate the other photo is on the RELIANCE R STORE site. Another one is the Leyland JWU 132 shown in Premier livery which was also ex Felix.

Dave Oglesby

16/02/15 - 06:55

David Call's mention of "Leyland AEC" reminds me that I once saw a London Country AEC Reliance with "Leyland Blueline" on the tax disc. This was related to a short-lived (or possibly stillborn) marketing exercise in which it was announced that BMC commercials (Bathgate) were to be called Leyland Redline, AEC was to be Leyland Blueline and Albion was to become Leyland Clydesdale.

Peter Williamson

16/02/15 - 09:46

Chris B, To me, one of the more interesting buses in the collection is FRW 587, the Daimler/Willowbrook. It has a 1946 Coventry registration, so could well have been a demonstrator, I suppose- but must have been a smart and "modern" looking bus at that time. Does anyone know more- we nearly have a caption! One point: the radiator is blanked, which is odd for a Daimler engine- usually the opposite- yet it is from Coventry, so presumably (and at that date) not a CWA. Leon seemed to have a remarkable yen for the curious: I haven't got over their high capacity Leyland Lion on this site!

Joe

16/02/15 - 11:34

Another splendid ex Felix vehicle enjoying a second career, and more excellent maintenance and presentation, with Samuel Ledgard of Leeds.

GWY 157 was an AEC Regent III with superb quality and delightfully traditional body by Roberts. The heavier weight coachwork presented no difficulty for the lusty but refined 9.6 litre engine. The colour picture is source unknown but the bus is entering Vicar Lane at the start of a journey to Rawdon. The interior B & W shots, showing the sumptuous comfort, are my own.

Chris Youhill

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