If you have a question you would like an answer to please get in touch and I will put it on this page.
07/09/22
Budgens Coaches, Wincanton
I wonder if anyone has any information of the Bedford OB coach operated by Budgens Garage Wincanton in the early to mid 60’s, I used to travel to school in it. We also used it for a journey to RAF Lyneham for our annual ATC camp. They also operated a similar Duple bodied coach on an Austin chassis.
Mark Randall
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14/09/22 – 05:31
I have just purchased a copy of a book about Wakes Services, who were at one time based in Wincanton, it mentions the Budgens Bedford OB as being registration number FMR 236, in a blue and grey livery which I what I remembered.
Mark Randall
15/09/22 – 05:38
FMR 236 was new to Crook Melksham in March 1949.
Stephen Howarth
16/09/22 – 05:27
It appears that Budgens ceased their coach operations in 1970, and that the Bedford OB was disposed of in July the same year. The Austin VB/K4 with Mann Egerton bodywork registration KDV 226, had already been withdrawn from use in August 1965. I have checked to see if FMR 236 made it into preservation, but it would seem not.
Mark Randall
06/09/22
BOAC Coaches at Heathrow
I am wondering whether any of your contributors might be able to assist me with a book project I am working on. I am preparing a book on the activities at the original North Side passenger terminal at Heathrow, from 1946 until the eventual transfer of passenger services to the Central Area in the late 1960s. Does anyone have any photographs of BOAC coaches at the North Side terminal that I might be able to use? All images used will be properly credited to their sources, and all help will be acknowledged in the eventual book.
Although I now live in Aberdeenshire, in my school days I lived in Brentford and remember seeing BOAC coaches going to and from Heathrow from the BOAC building (later Beechams) on the Great West Road there.
Charles Woodley
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26/08/22
Transpo ’73 Exhibition – Crossville Lodekka
This exhibition was staged from 19th May to 3rd June 1973 at Number 6 Dock, Port of Manchester. Historic buses on display were Leyland ‘Titan’ DCK 219, Daimler CVG6DD JND 728, Atkinson PD746 UMA 370 and Reo Speedwagon MR 3879. Seemingly a shuttle service ran from central Manchester using SELNEC Leyland ‘Titan’ EDB 549 suitably branded as pictured at – see this flickr link – and what is described as a Crossville Bristol ‘Lodekka’ freshly painted in a historic North Western Road Car livery. Does anyway know the identity of the ‘Lodekka’ or of any pictures of it at the time? It has been suggested that it might have been 838 ARM which certainly carried a special livery in later years, however I’ve been unable to link this to the event.
Peter Hall
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27/08/22 – 06:42
Peter; are you perhaps referring to 838 AFM? http://www.sct61.org.uk/cv881
John Lomas
03/09/22 – 06:32
Sorry John, a typo, yes I did mean 838 AFM not ARM. So far though I’ve found nothing to suggest that 838 AFM carried a historic livery as early as 1973 or was involved with Transpo ’73.
Also, forgot to mentioning that Leyland LSC1 JCP 60F (J 4601) and Commer MC EC 634 were also displayed.
Peter Hall
05/08/22
Arnold Benson Coaches of Kildwick/Laneshaw Bridge
In a 1979 magazine of a club I was then a member of it is mentioned that coaches for its excursions were being provided by Pennine Way of Laneshaw Bridge. This picture of Duple bodied Leyland Leopard RTD 432C was taken on such an excursion in April 1979. At the time B & J Travel of Barnoldswick where also being used and they have confirmed that they did cross hire from Border Tours of Barnoldswick at the time – this probably explains the picture. RTD 432C had been new to Fishwicks before passing to Border.
However, RTD 432C is also recorded as passing to Arnold Benson Tours, Laneshaw Bridge in 1979. I’ve been unable to discover much about Arnold Benson Tours other than this http://www.farnhill.co.uk/History_Docs/ most interesting pre 1970 history. Does anyone know anything about the post 1970 history of the company, did they move to Laneshaw Bridge c1970? Where they connected with Pennine Way of Laneshaw Bridge?
Peter Hall
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08/08/22 – 06:30
The Arnold Benson business was purchased around 1975 by a Mr T Newsham, who also traded as Newsham & Pye in Laneshaw Bridge, Colne. The business moved to Laneshaw Bridge then passed to a J. Cheeseborough in May 1977. The business is recorded as ceasing to trade in May 1978. RDT 432C passed from Kellett to an operator in the North West Traffic Area in July 1979.
David Hick
15/08/22 – 06:31
Thanks David. B. W. Kellet of Barnoldswick traded as Border Tours so one and the same. The information I had been given gives RTC 432C as passing to Newsham & Pye t/a as Arnold Benson Tours, Laneshaw Bridge in c6/79, then to Pennine Way, Laneshaw Bridge in c9/80. Could it be that T. Newsham was actually trading as Pennine Way after selling his earlier operations to J. Cheeseborough in 1977. Consequently some confusion and RTC 432C passed to T. Newsham t/a as Pennine Way in mid 1979 and remained with them until its demise three years later. It would be very interesting to know if any one has pictures or notes about RTC 432C during this period which might confirm branding or ownership.
Peter Hall
03/09/22 – 06:34
I now understand that T. Newsham and a Gerald Day set up Pennine Way in c1979 and it may well be Gerald in the drivers seat in the picture. Possibly then, Pennine Way were actually hiring RTD 432C prior to purchase and it was they who purchased it in July 1979. Perhaps at the time Pennine Way was just a trading name used by T. Newsham for his activities.
I believe I’m correct in saying that Barnoldswick and surrounding area where until 1974 in Yorkshire but Laneshaw Bridge has always been in Lancashire and that traffic areas didn’t tally with geographical boundaries at times in the 1970s. Could anyone say which traffic area the two communities and mentioned operators would have been in during the 1970s?
Peter Hall
23/06/22
Village in East Anglia
Its bugging me that I cant remember the name of a village in East Anglia, I think. Where from the 1930s up to the 60s/70s (much depleted by then) there was a large community that lived in converted old buses, some as holiday homes, some as old as WW1. The place actually had a name, and I have read about it in a couple of books. Mike Worthington Williams mentioned it in the ‘Automobile’ magazine many years ago.
Anyone got any ideas?
David Cox
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31/05/22
AJS Buses
My grandfather Charley Moon had his own coach company before I was born (1952) and I do have one picture of him in front of a AJS coach or bus. My question is do any still exist. I understand they were built in Wolverhampton before they built Motorcycles. It may be that these were test vehicles he was trying out.
I will see if I can find the picture as it was featured in a local newspaper some years ago and a calendar of which I have a copy.
Bryan J. delos Santos Moon
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03/06/22 – 05:32
J. (Joseph) Stevens & Co started as a blacksmith business in Wednesfield, and moved to Wolverhampton in 1894 where, amongst its other products, a single cylinder four stroke gas engine became a successful seller. The Stevens Motor Manufacturing Company was set up in 1899 and expanded into a wider range of engines, carburettors and gearboxes for stationary, road and marine uses. In 1909 the company was reconstituted as A. J. Stevens, named after one of the sons of Joe Stevens – Albert John – though it remained a family undertaking. It went on after WW1 to produce a very successful range of motorcycles and also the body shells for Clyno Cars, and expanded into wireless sets from 1923. When, in those depressed years, Clyno collapsed in 1929 it hit the AJS company hard. Whilst continuing with motorcycles, AJS took up the manufacture of cars itself and then, from 1929 to 1931, produced three designs of single deck passenger vehicles, available in normal or forward control. The chassis frames were made locally by John Thompson Motor Pressings at Bilston. The Pilot of February 1929 had a 3.3 litre Meadows engine with four speed gearbox, but was later offered in upgraded form in 1930 for haulage and passenger applications with the Coventry Climax engine. About 140 were built. In October 1929 came the Commodore for 32 seat bus/coach use with the six cylinder 5.8 litre Coventry Climax L6 engine coupled with a four speed gearbox, and around 60 were manufactured. Finally came the Admiral in 1931, but this was to have a very short production run as the company had taken out loans to finance the commercial vehicle side of the business, and in the severely depressed times, it could not service its debts. The banks called a shareholders meeting on 2 October 1931 and the AJS company was liquidated. In the event the company’s assets fully met the liabilities at 20 shillings in the pound. The AJS manufacturing name and rights were bought by Matchless motorcycles of Plumstead, and soon became just a badge engineered version of the Plumstead motorcycle product. Undeterred, using their own name, the Stevens brothers restarted their enterprise in 1932, building a three wheeled van using motorcycle engine, steering and transmission components. Stevens motorcycle production resumed in 1934 on a limited basis and continued until 1938 when work in the face of the impending war took over. I would suspect that your grandfather’s AJS saloon was an example of the Pilot. Sadly, the stock of unsold commercial chassis and parts was rendered down during WW2 for the war effort, and I am not aware of any surviving AJS passenger vehicles.
A comprehensive history of the Stevens commercial vehicle models may be found here:-
http://www.historywebsite.co.uk/Museum/Transport/commercial/ajs.htm
Roger Cox
28/05/22
Can Anyone Help Me With The Following
As a child I lived in Manchester we moved to Australia in 1965 so what follows was before that.
First, at Hyde Road depot there was an old I think war time bus with doors at the end of the bus that made the bus look fat. From memory it was painted with a black top, from the war I guess, and it was Manchester Corporation colours. I saw it one day being used on the skid test. Please can anyone identify it for me.
Secondly, the old Don Cinema was near the Don river across the road (Ashton New Road) at the side of the river was a grassed area with a disused Manchester bus on it (1950s) please can anyone supply any information.
These two things have haunted me for years.
Mike
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29/05/22 – 06:20
The Manchester bus with the bulge at the back was Crossley DD42 no. 2937 (GNF 867). The platform doors were an experimental safety feature, which was repeated rather more neatly on 2152-9.
2937 was new in 1946. The grey roof was part of the standard livery at the time, but later, when most buses were 8′ wide and had red roofs, those which were 7’6" wide retained the grey roof as a signal to the bus wash operator. 2937 was sold for scrap in September 1963.
Peter Williamson
03/06/22 – 05:28
I’ve just remembered that 2937 is featured at the beginning of this old film clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4IZpkGDvQ8 At 0:55 you can easily see what Mike means about it looking fat!
Peter Williamson
12/05/22
Thornycroft – Tilling Bus
I have attached my drawing of a Thornycroft bus drawn from a Corgi 1.50 model. I am uncertain, regarding the dimensions of the rear entrance and stairs which I have as 808.860, (these seem to be too compact). Could anyone advise me on the various points on this bus.
Frederick Riley
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15/03/22
Commercial Motor "Ulsterman"
Does anyone know the name of the author of articles in Commercial Motor during the 1920’s under the title "Notes from Northern Ireland"? The author only ever seems to have referred to himself as "Ulsterman" but he seems to have had considerable knowledge of the local industry in days before nationalisation.
I did ask CM themselves but haven’t even had the courtesy of any reply.
Bill Headley
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25/01/22
Trott, Nettleham
Does anyone have any details of the vehicles run by this company. I am a bus enthusiast and am researching old operators of Lincolnshire to create fleet lists for each operator.
Steven Crombie
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26/01/22 – 06:18
BLOTW only has one vehicle for Trott.
DVL 269– Bd OB 118464– Du 54866– 10/1949.
John Lomas
03/07/22 – 05:44
I travelled on that old bone shaker many times in the 1950s. I was in primary school in Nettleham but lived 2 miles out and took the bus uphill to The Brown Cow and walked the rest home. It garaged next to the rec field in Nettleham. Somewhere in my historic computer files I have a downloaded photo which I will post if I find it.
Stephen Bigger
11/01/22
Wartime Bus Colour
What colour were buses in wartime Halifax I remember them as grey and brown. Can anyone else remember this?
Barry Simpson
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12/01/22 – 05:53
I am from Halifax, and though it’s well before my time, I remember my late father telling me that some Halifax buses were repainted grey with brown bands during wartime, and one or two black and white photos in my collection would suggest that was the case.
John Stringer
16/01/22 – 06:30
Barry, looking through Geoffrey Hilditch’s book ‘Halifax Passenger Transport from 1897 to 1963’, there are a couple of black & white photos of double-deckers which show the wartime grey with brown bands livery mentioned by John. One is a rear-end view of A-fleet Roe-bodied AEC Regent 64 (JX 6897) towing a producer gas trailer. The bus appears to be grey, with a brown roof plus three brown bands – one below the upper deck windows, and one above and one below the lower deck ones. The other view is of B-fleet AEC Regent 103 (JX 46), which has three bands positioned as on 64, but the roof colour is difficult to ascertain due to the way the light catches it – not helped by the roof being of the unusual "camel back" design. The photo caption states that 103’s bodywork is by Hoyal, which I think is correct, but confusingly the fleetlist in the book lists it as being by English Electric. Looks like another question for John….
Brendan Smith
20/01/22 – 06:44
Halifax Regent 103 (JX 46) had an English Electric body.
Halifax’s ‘camel-roofed’ open staircase Regents had bodywork by three different coachbuilders. The original 1929/30 ones (with CP 81xx/86xx registrations) had Short bodies, as did the acquired ex-demonstrator prototype MT 2114. The 1931 ones (with CP 90xx registrations) had Hoyal bodies and the 1932/33 ones (with CP 94xx/JX 3xx registrations) had English Electric bodies. The exception being CP 9061, which had a Short body.
Whether the undertaking specified those particular coachbuilders, or whether they were ordered as complete vehicles from AEC and it was they who subcontracted the bodies out, I don’t know. They were all very similar, though there were – going by close scrutiny of photographs – subtle differences to identify them.
Some of the later camel-roofed Regents were subsequently rebuilt by the Skircoat Road bodyshop with enclosed staircases, and I believe carried a small plaque declaring the fact.
John Stringer
22/01/22 – 05:52
John, thanks for setting me on the right track as to 103’s correct bodybuilder. I’m just glad I didn’t put any money on it being Hoyal!
Brendan Smith
05/01/22
Buses on Leigh to Manchester in 1970’s
I used to get the 7:20 route 26 from Leigh to Manchester in the late 60’s and early 70’s. I would like to know what was the type of bus that had opening front doors? I thought the name began with M but having seen pictures on the Renown (in Selnec colours, I could be mistaken)
John Atherton
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05/01/22 – 15:49
The route would have been the 26 service, jointly operated by buses from either Leigh, (Blue) Salford, (Green) or LUT, (Red) It would be likely a Leigh or LUT bus at 07:20 from Leigh in the morning, so if it was a blue Leigh bus with doors at the front it would have been an AEC Renown. Had it been a red LUT bus then it would have been a Guy Arab, however it may just also have been a Daimler Fleetline (with its engine at the back). For sake of completeness, had it been a green Salford bus, that would have been either a Leyland Titan or a Leyland Atlantean that was also rear engined. Hope this helps.
Mike Norris
08/01/22 – 06:15
John, I too took the 26 bus from Leigh to Manchester, but, on the following 07:40 bus, always a green Salford Atlantean with ‘C’ (1965) Reg. That was for one year when I left school in 1968 until I joined the RN in 1969. I worked in an office at the lower end of Princess Street. My 07:40 was always about 10-15 mins. late arriving Greengate due to the road construction works at Pendleton at that time, so I had to then leg it across the city centre to get to work for 9, very out of breath. I used to get the 17:30 back to Leigh which was also a Salford Atlantean, although once I remember catching a delayed 17:10 journey which to my delight was a Leigh Corporation rear entrance Dennis Loline! That would have been a bit of a comedown, capacity wise, to the non-enthusiast passengers, and yes I remember it did get rather crowded!
Anyway, I have an Omnibus Society Joint Workings publication for 60’s/70’s so I can tell you your 07:20 was operated by Leigh Corporation and would have usually been one of their front entrance Dennis Lolines at that time.
David Smith
09/01/22 – 05:46
With David Smith having confirmed that it would have been a Leigh Corporation bus on John’s 0720 journey from Leigh to Manchester, there are a number of photographs on the web of a preserved front entrance AEC Renown in Leigh’s lovely blue livery including one on the Old Bus Photos site.
The vehicle is PTC 114C, a front entrance East Lancs bodied AEC Renown which was new in 1965. Doing a Google search of that registration then reveals on which sites the photos may be found. There are also a couple of videos on YouTube of rides on that particular bus.
Just a small observation but I don’t think Leigh had any front entrance Dennis Lolines. Their first six Renowns (1963) were also rear entrance but the later fourteen Renowns were front entrance.
David Slater
09/01/22 – 05:46
David,
I can draw comparisons with your journeys into Manchester arriving late.
From 1965 to 1967 I was working at Frederick Road in the Traffic Office and travelled from Little Hulton on the 31 service at the same time as your journey, but the delay in those years was the construction of the Motorway flyover (that became the M62, then later the M60) across the East Lancs Road. So I always just missed the Docks 70 on Broad Street and had to leg it downhill to the Depot. My journey was also always one of the ‘C’ reg batch of Salford Atlanteans. Numbers 219 & 232 were the most regular but I remember that 221 sounded different, I don’t know why but it had a whine through the gears, so I could tell it just by that sound. Regarding Leigh, there were no front entrance Lolines, was that a typo ? and all their Lolines and Renowns had 72 seats each.
Mike Norris
10/01/22 – 06:13
Argh! Just making an amendment to the vehicle types in my post, hopefully before Mike picks up on it! I had to root out my Ian Allan Lancs Municipals Book.
The ‘delayed’ 17:10 return journey which I once caught in Manchester to Leigh wasn’t a rear-entrance Loline, it was a Leyland Titan PD2/East Lancs lowbridge with upstairs bench seats/side gangway, so as you can see it was fairly limited capacity, 58 instead of 72.
And, my mistake number 2 was to call their front entrance bus a Dennis Loline. It was not-they were AEC Renowns.
Glad I can correct it!
David Smith
08/11/21
Hull to Beverley Bus Route
I am writing an account of my late father’s life. He was born in 1929 and lived on Welwyn Park Avenue during his early childhood. I know that he frequently visited his grand parents who lived in Dunswell. Was there a bus service during that time between Hull and Beverley and if so do you know what the timetable would have been like?
Gary Pamplin
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09/11/21 – 06:49
In 1929, the main operator on the route was Kingston Services (Hull City Motor Works Ltd), the company was purchased by East Yorkshire in 1932. Some other operators purchased by EYMS also operated the route. Unfortunately I have no idea what the frequencies were. Kingston Motors operated between Hull and Beverley hourly.
I trust that this is of interest.
Keith Easton
09/11/21 – 06:53
The main bus operator on the Hull to Beverley bus service since the 1920s, and still running today, is East Yorkshire Motor Services (EYMS). Some of their services operated beyond Beverley to more distant destinations like Bridlington and Scarborough plus York and Leeds (jointly operated with West Yorkshire Road Car Company). So there would have been regular buses available for the journey to Dunswell.
Photographs of some of the early buses EYMS operated in the Hull area may be seen on the ‘Local Transport History Library’ website: http://www.lthlibrary.org.uk/library/PDF-066-2.pdf
Unfortunately though I don’t have any timetables for the 1930s which would have been your Dad’s childhood period. My earliest date from the 1950s but hopefully someone out there might be able to help.
David Slater
08/12/21 – 06:15
Here is a list of services in July 1929.
Malcolm Wells
15/10/21
Bus Colour
A long shot, but does anyone know the paint specifications used on the Todmorden Corporation Buses, ie the green and cream livery. If they are BS numbers that would be fantastic. Here’s hoping.
Jeremy Banyard
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14/09/21
Two Orion Body Questions
After a good few years when I lost interest in this subject I have returned to it with renewed interest. Currently I am looking at the difference, if there was one, between the bodies built at Addlestone by Weymann and Metro Cammell Carriage Works. To all intents and purposes they were the same company although they constructed buses on two separate sites, Addlestone and Washwood Heath. Who built the Orion, did both companies produce the same body? Leeds City Transport had 20 MCCW (built in 1956) bodied buses and 20 Weymann (built in 1957) bodied buses. Both were of all metal construction. So was the Orion an MCCW marque or could it be either. What constituted and Orion body?
David Walton
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15/09/21 – 06:39
Weymann and Met Cam (MCCW) were never the same company until Met Cam bought Weymann in 1963. Only then did MCW exist as a manufacturer – previously it was a mutually owned marketing company. Weymann by volume were always the junior partner. The Orion was a Met Cam design which eventually pushed out Weymann designs, but these continued in small numbers after the 1953 introduction. Prime examples are the Rochdale Regent Vs (to 1959) and Bournemouth trolleys (to 1962). The drivers cab doors were different, as were the saloon front windows – which were rectangular on Met Cam but had the "droop" on the bottom edge of the Weymanns in a nod to earlier designs. The definitive difference was the smallest – a triangular insert in the half cab overhang angle by the cab windscreen. Things became slightly muddy after 1963 and the big strike following full take over of Weymann by MCCW. Many vehicles were cancelled, other orders were transferred to Birmingham or, more interestingly, begun at Addlestone but transferred mid construction to Birmingham. Nevertheless, a MCCW design eventually adopted by Weymann.
David Oldfield
15/09/21 – 06:37
The first comment under the photograph in the link below explains the difference between the Metro Cammell and Weymann bodies. This, of course, does not apply to the two batches of Daimlers for Leeds, because the LIMITED STOP sign occupied the corner.
www.sct61.org.uk/rh444
John Kaye
16/09/21 – 05:46
Unfortunately there were also exceptions at Wolverhampton https://flic.kr/p/2kTcwnf, Liverpool https://flic.kr/p/NE7btJ and Luton https://flic.kr/p/2kDYHkg.
All of these were Metro-Cammell Orions without the triangular insert. The Liverpool one is understandable as it was a customised design incorporating an overhang above the cab window. The other two are notable in having been 7’6" wide as opposed to 8’0" which was standard at the time.
Peter Williamson
09/11/21 – 06:57
David Oldfield’s description of the industrial turmoil before the Weymann strike in 1963 reminds me of the effect it had on an order that Portsmouth Corporation had for Leyland/Orion buses to replace its trolleybuses. The nigh-on twelve month delay in fulfilling the complete order forced the fragile 25 year old trolleys, with planned minimal maintenance already, to soldier on, getting ever fewer and having to be supplanted by the odd motor bus. I reported one trolleybus as being unsafe, which resulted in it being taken out of service. Even during the slow delivery of the order, trolleybuses supplanted the new buses going into service and running exclusively on the late evening services. It was a difficult time for the CPPTD, but an interesting one for the enthusiast!
Chris Hebbron
23/08/21
West Hertfordshire County Coaches
I ask has anyone a fleet list of West Hertfordshire County Coaches dating 1935 -1965.. New and 2nd hand coaches during this period are of great interest.
I believe the company to be known as West Hertfordshire County Coaches I also ask was a change in the trading name to show West Hertfordshire Road Car Company at anytime can anyone confirm this please.
Alan Coulson
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25/08/21 – 05:56
Information on this operator seems very limited. In the Passenger Transport Year Book of 1966/7 they are listed as "West Herts Coaches Ltd" of 785, St. Albans Road, Garston with directors E.R. Margetts and G. Penn. The fleet was given as 4 AEC and one Foden.
The only vehicle I had listed is RAR 906, an AEC Regal nes as Cardiff Corporation 143 in 1937, rebodied Burlingham FC35F for Bayliss (C & B) of Hatfield in 1954, passing to West Herts later the same year. It went to Best of Wembley in 1965.
Apparently they also owned RTL 326 (KGU 284) from May 1968 until the business was acquired by Kirby Coaches of Bushey Heath in March 1969.
Was there any connection with Horace Bernard Slade of The Cottage, George Street, Hemel Hempstead trading as West Herts Motor Services? That business was absorbed in to Hewitt’s Premier Coaches of Watford in April 1930.
Nigel Turner
27/08/21 – 06:47
Nigel.
Thank you for your reply.
I have no knowledge of the connection you raised re Slade in 1930.
I acknowledge your listing as West Hertfordshire Coaches Ltd. I new them only as West Hertfordshire County Coaches this came from a photo I was out bid on at last minute on E.bay. The photo shows coach with a motif of W.H.C.C. In a circle on side of the coach, the H was on top of the W at a slight angle with the C’s over the W and the H. A neat but complicated motif. The coach in question was a AEC Roe Dalesman registration TUG20 New to Roe in 9-1954 as their Demonstrator it was to West Hertfordshire in 1956. In Preservation coach was 344XUK. still in Preservation it is now showing TUG20 once more. This would be 1 of the 4 AEC coaches you mentioned. Have you a photo of RAR 906. I was wondering if other coaches had destination boards and whether they had W.H.C.C in the blind above the driver’s cab. For some reason I had them doing stage services hence only 4 coaches a local private hire Independent is more likely. Maybe others can come up with another coach or coaches.
Alan Coulson
02/08/21
Typeface Query
May I ask if you know the typeface that United Automobile (and slightly later Arriva) bus service used on their buses’ destination rolls during the early 1990’s please?
Lee Walker
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10/07/21
Hooper of Castle Eaton Wiltshire
3 New coaches are listed New to them BLOTW.
AAM 406 in 4-1936, BMW 759 in 1-1939 & CWV in 1943.
I have come across a 2nd hand Dennis Lancelot new in 1938 CS 6816 Ex Western SMT. I ask can anyone add further new or 2nd hand vehicle’s or does anyone have a fleet list of Hooper.
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23/06/21
Middlesbrough Inspected Loline
It has just come to light that Middlesbrough "inspected" the Willowbrook bodied Loline for Blue Bus, Willington, before that bus was delivered to the customer. This inspection was in January 1958 apparently. Does anyone know if this was shown only at the Dennis factory, or was it taken to Middlesbrough to try out? There is a picture in the 3/58 issue of Buses Illustrated showing "465 FRB" with Surrey trade plates during its demo period. It entered service at Blue Bus in 2/58.
Any comments would be welcome
David Stanier
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23/06/21 – 14:14
We at the Teesside 500 Group own and operate this bus JDC 599 having restored her between 1994 and 1998.
I have never heard of the Corporation Transport people inspecting the Dennis prototype but is seems likely that they did.
I first came across it at Earls Court in 1958 when I visited the Commercial Show as a new starter in the Ford Lorry business.
David Hunter
24/06/21 – 06:53
On the rear, there’s a blind which indicates Fare, 3d.
Was this a flat rate fare?
if so, how common was this at the time?
Ronnie Hoye
15/05/21
Stockport Corporation 1950’s Bus
My Father in Law has Dementia and now resides in a nursing home. He drove buses for the Stockport Corporation through the 1950’s. I am trying to find pictures of a bus he would have likely driven at that time, that I could print and frame to hang on the wall in his room.
The nursing staff said it would be a helpful tool as it gives them something that he is likely to remember that they can talk to him about.
Graham Dolphin
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15/05/21 – 13:10
There are quite a few on http://www.sct61.org.uk/index/operator/sk
I’m sure the copyright holders would let you print them for such purposes. Might even let you have higher resolution scans.
Do you know if he was mostly on single deckers or doubles?
I would think that the coloured photos would be most helpful
John Lomas
03/05/21
ST1089 Livery
I am modelling A & D Shorts bodied ST1089.
I have two conflicting accounts. One saying Green & Cream, the other Maroon & White
Different authors.
Any ideas as to which is correct?
Tony Seal
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04/05/21 – 06:02
Tony, not sure if you’ve already viewed it, but the ‘Ian’s Bus Stop’ website may well help. Just type in Ian’s Bus Stop ST on Google and it should give you information and illustrations on the various ST batches.
Brendan Smith
10/04/21
Sellars of Sheffield
An on-line listing shows four vehicles new to Sellars, Sheffield and four vehicles new to Sellers, Sheffield as well as one to Sellers, Dinnington and one to Sellers, Wincobank. Can anyone clarify if these are all connected please? Is Sellers, Sheffield, merely a typo? I would like to know something of the history of this/these operators if anyone can help.
Les Dickinson
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10/04/21 – 17:12
Les. I have heard of Sellars but know nothing about him. My contribution is concerning a well-known listing (which may be the same as you were quoting).
Cyril Littlewood is listed three times – as if there were three separate fleets each with totally different lists. 1) Littlewood, Sheffield; 2) C Littlewood, Sheffield; 3) C G Littlewood, Sheffield. Cyril sold out to Skill’s on retirement, but his his son Geoff started a small operation at the same time. His vehicles are mixed with one of these lists. Kind of reflects what you were saying.
David Oldfield
10/04/21 – 17:13
I have details of the following new vehicles:-
E.M. Sellers, Sheffield :- JAL 708
H. Sellers, Wincobank, Sheffield 9 :- KWB 826, LWA 528, LWJ 274, MWB 530, ,WB 531, NWJ 681, PWB 222, FHL 689, TWE 444, and 6666 WE.
Tom. Sellers, Dunnington, York :- only second-hand vehicles
John Kaye
10/04/21 – 17:15
The entry for Sellers, Dinnington (PDN 243T) is an error the vehicle was new to the North Riding operator Tom Sellers of Dunnington, East of York.
David Hick
10/04/21 – 22:45
Sorry-the registration number I gave is incorrect-it should have been PDN 236T. This was the only vehicle bought new by Sellers, Dunnington. New in February 1979 and sold to Pollard, Hayle in May 1984.
David Hick
11/04/21 – 13:14
Thanks for the clarification. An interesting fleet about which it would seem little has been written.
Les Dickinson
18/11/21 – 05:57
‘Bus Lists On The Web’ gives JAL 708 as having been new to Brumpton, Dunham-on-Trent, which seems to tie in with the registration.
David Call
15/03/21
Northern Bus 1950s 1960s
I am researching the village of Alnmouth, Northumberland, and I am trying to find a photograph of a Northern bus 1950s-60s single decker that took people from the Newcastle/Gateshead/Tyneside area for trips to this small seaside resort. The bus is described as Burgundy in colour with the words NORTHERN in gold letters on the side, I appreciate that they would probably, be a black and white images. Can anyone come up with a photograph of what would run to Alnmouth.
John Yearnshire
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11/04/21 – 13:15
The Northern General Transport Company was a major bus and coach operator and had many different types of vehicle. There are photographs matching your description, for example https://flic.kr/p/CMKeuQ, but it would require specific knowledge of the time and place to say which particular type(s) would be likely to have gone to Alnmouth.
Peter Williamson
10/03/21
Long Distance Coaches Running into Worsick St Bus Station from the West of Newcastle-on-Tyne
I’ve just been reading the articles and photos of the various bus stations in Newcastle-on-Tyne which I found quite nostalgic. I live in Sydney now.
In 1970 or thereabouts I used to work in Telephone House at Carliol Square. Usually I’d catch a no. 34, 37 or 38 Newcastle Transport bus into the city from next to Westgate Hill School. Sometimes there were long queues with buses not stopping. I’d keep a close eye on buses coming from the west. If by chance I saw a single decker in red? livery coming down Westgate Rd, I used to sprint from the usual bus stop to the Northern? bus stop about 100m towards the city, with one arm in the air trying to catch the driver’s attention.
The buses were very well fitted out with velour seats and I used to enjoy the ride in comfort to Worsick St, right next to Carliol Square. Much better than swaying around on a crowded Atlantian.
I wonder if anyone can confirm the company, route and where the buses came from in the west. Hexham? If possible, perhaps, the type of buses they would be so I could add the diecast model to my nostalgic collection.
Jim Stafford
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15/03/21 – 06:36
You’ve got me beat there Jim. There were exceptions, but as a rough rule of thumb, services from the Haymarket went North and East Marlborough Crescent served the West, and anything from Worswick Street went to destinations south of the Tyne.
But as I said, there were exceptions, for example the United Tyne-Tees-Thames London service departed from the Haymarket, and the OKMS service to Bishop Auckland went from Marlborough Crescent.
At some time in the 60’s, with the advent of NBC, most of the longer express services moved to Gallowgate. That said, the Barton service to Coventry, and the Primrose service to Blackpool remained at Marlborough Crescent.
Ronnie Hoye
24/02/21
Eastern Belle Coaches
First E-Mail
I have a photo of a 661 trolleybus to Leyton passing the office of Eastern Belle Coaches. It looks like Stratford East London- or could it be Whitechapel?. Could you please help identify the location.
Reply
I think you forgot to attach the Photo.
I do it all the time.
Second E-Mail
My enquiry was to locate the office/garage of Eastern Belle Coaches which I thought was somewhere along trolleybus routes 661 & 663. This could only be between Aldgate and Stratford Broadway where the two routes then divided. I first thought Stratford but then tried Bow. I used Google maps locating the "old" office /garage the site of which is now ATS tyres etc.
What I would like to know is. Was Bow the main base for Eastern Belle? and were there any other premises? and when did they cease business?
Peter Moore
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25/02/21 – 06:14
The head office of Eastern Belle was at 167a to 171 Bow Road, E3. This was opposite Bow Church on the north side of the main road. They had branch offices at 3, Beckton Road, E16 and 424 Roman Road, E3.
Pick up points for their services were also at Devons Road, E3 and Manbey Park Road, E15.
Before WW2 their head office had been at 12, Eglinton Road, E3.
The licences were sold to Popular Coaches, E16 in August 1969 when they are recorded as ceasing as a PSV operator. The vehicles were not included in the sale and it is likely that they ceased operations at the end of the 1968 season.
The company operated half cab AEC Regals well into the 1960s, not acquiring an underfloor engined vehicle until 1964. NXL 847, a 1953 AEC Regal 111 is preserved.
John Card
19/02/21
Leyland TX 8223 Eclipse
Can anyone provide the details of Leyland single-deck bus registered TX 8223. At some time this was with Eclipse.
Les Dickinson
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20/02/21 – 07:11
It’s mentioned in the middle of page 2 of the United Welsh fleet list at http://richardstransportpages.co.uk/
Fleet Number 516 – Built 1930. Leyland Lion LT1. Leyland B36
Mike Grant
17/02/21
School Bus in The Red House
I have just been watching on YouTube "The Red House", a somewhat creepy Hollywood movie dating from 1947. A couple of scenes in the movie are set on a school bus. Now I know nothing about American school buses, but to me, this one sounds just like a Bedford OB. Indeed, with it’s normal-control layout, it could almost be a bus bodied OB. This suggests that the OB has it’s origins in an American design, presumably Chevrolet. Is anyone able to comment on this?
John Gibson
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18/02/21 – 07:21
This extract from the Wikipedia article on Bedford Vehicles appears to confirm this.
"A large part of Bedford’s original success in breaking into the UK and British Empire markets lay in the overhead-valve (OHV) six-cylinder Chevrolet engine, now known as Chevrolet Stove Bolt 6 – well ahead of its time, this smooth running inline six-cylinder engine formed the basis of Bedford and Vauxhall petrol engines almost until the marque ceased building trucks and buses."
It should be remembered that much of the individuality of the sound of a vehicle is due to the drive train (gearbox, etc.) rather than the engine, and I would certainly consider this to be true of the OB. The design of the exhaust pipe and silencer also has a major role! The article (and the separate one on the OB) make no mention of the drive train but it seems highly probable that this would also be of Chevrolet origin, given that the earliest Bedfords were essentially rebadged models for the UK market.
Alan Murray-Rust
24/02/21 – 06:34
Thanks for that comment on my query.
For me, the sound of a bus was a part of it’s attraction – I always favoured buses with a distinctive sound. That was certainly true of the Bedford OB. Unfortunately, my hearing now is not as sharp as it once was, nevertheless, the sound of the bus in the movie (when it pulls away from a stop) was instantly recognizable.
John Gibson
10/02/21
Brighton H&D Double Decker
During the early 1950s on the route 14 of Brighton Hove a District Busses there was one Bristol double decker that seemed to have more power than it’s contemporaries on the route. Did some of those Bristol buses have some form of supercharger fitted.
John Snelling
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11/02/21 – 14:00
There were no super charged or turbo charged K types as far as I am aware. B&H maybe had some Gardner 6LWs which may have been more powerful after a few years than the Bristol AVW. Maybe they also had some 5LWs where reduced power would have been more obvious but suspect the answer will be one or two drivers being more spirited in their driving technique,
Roger Burdett
29/01/21
Manchester Corp and Ribble Fares 1960s
Reminiscing over a video call recently we were debating the costs for:
a) A one day child’s ticket for Manchester Corporation c 1960. I seem to remember one shilling and three pence. Am I right ?
b) A one week child’s rover ticket on Ribble in the same era. Again I seem to remember sixteen shillings.
Hope someone may have that data.
J Sims
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30/01/21 – 06:46
I happen to have two Manchester fare tables and by chance both date from 1960. In the first, dated 1st January, an adult Cheap Day Travel ticket was 2/- with the child version at 1/-. The second fare table dates from 24th October and by then the adult ticket had increased to 2/3d whilst the child version was 1/2d.
I’ve realised typing this that I haven’t used pre-decimalisation denominations much lately and the last two prices also look like two-thirds of a penny and a halfpenny respectively. Was it really fifty years ago?
David Beilby
20/01/21
Avon Coaches Netheravon Wilts
Would anyone have any info on the above company that was operating in the 1950’s I grew up in Netheravon and was a Coach driver in later life for a company in the next village but had no idea about Avon coaches until someone showed me an aerial phot taken in the fifties with the coaches parked in the yard. I have been told a former driver had written a book with a mention of his time working there (Driver by Fred C Root) but I have been unable to find a copy. So any info would be most welcome.
Mike Jones
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22/01/21 – 07:30
The 1956/7 Little Red Book which was a directory for the current industry records –
"Avon Coaches Ltd – Avon Garage, Netheravon, Wilts. Phone 324. Dirs: J.A. Whitmarsh, R.A. Whitmarsh (Gen. Man.). Rolling Stock: 6 coaches. Chassis: 3 Daimler, 2 Bedford, 1 Leyland. Bodies: 3 Duple, 3 Plaxton. Licence: E&T, Contract. Fleet livery: Green/Cream. Ticket system: Bell Punch."
The excellent Commercial Motor Archive has information about Avon Coaches and efforts to secure licences for RAF troop services. There’s a picture of vehicles at http://archive.commercialmotor.com/article/
Michael Grant
11/01/21
Wigan Cooperation Route Number
What route number originally went from Wigan to Standish Lower Ground. Or as was known Even House Farm, before it was the 612 or 634. Did the nek (new maybe) Atlanteans run this route.
Stuart
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14/01/21 – 06:32
The 1st September 1969 Wigan CTD timetable booklet shows route 4 as running between Market Street and Evan House Farm.
Mike Grant
14/01/21 – 09:39
Just adding to Mike’s information;- from the same timetable a footnote adds :- Most journeys proceed across town as Service 3/3A to Hindley (Castle Hill Estate or Ladies Lane/Whiteside Avenue).
A sample M-F Journey would be :-
Martland Mill Bridge (Evan House Farm) 06:58
Woodhouse Lane/Beech Hill Lane 07:01
WIGAN, Library Street 07:09
—————————————————
WIGAN Library Street 07:10
Ince Bar 07:17
Hindley, Market St/Ladies Lane 07:24
Hindley, Ladies Lane/Whiteside Avenue 07:26
NB In the reverse direction The Wigan town centre arrival point from Hindley and departure onwards to Evan House Farm was Market Street instead of Library Street.
David Smith
30/12/20
W Wootten & Sons LTD
As an automotive historian documenting the contents of mainly car magazines from cover to cover – producing a very detailed magazine index a 47 year project!! off-line – In the last 10 years I have added commercials and am slowly ploughing through early on – line issues of Commercial Motor – I was quite surprised that Buses and bus companies were also covered. Today I found 2nd August 1957 an article about W Wootten & Sons LTD; 35 Nightingale Grove; London; SE3 as of 1957 who owned 3 buses for Tours including a 1956 Commer 41-seat coach – I am interested if it survived – and there is no mention of the company here?
Julian Walls
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12/12/20
AEC ‘Bluebird’
When I was at infants school in Bradford we we bussed in and one day in 1945/46 we were picked up at school in what I now recognise as a six wheeler AEC ‘Bluebird’ in London Transport red livery. I wonder why it was working in Bradford, perhaps on loan? Does any one know why this bus was there, or has my mind played tricks on me?
Mike
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15/12/20 – 06:53
Mike, I don’t know whether this actually helps or not, but Bradford CT did have six London Transport AEC Regents on loan during World War II – ST362, 505, 726, 851, 879 and 966. They all arrived in October 1942, with ST851, 879 and 966 returning to the capital in June 1943, and ST362, 505 and 726 returning home in August 1944. According to Stanley King’s excellent ‘Bradford Corporation Motorbuses’ book, the loan of the STs, along with four Roe-bodied AEC Regents loaned from Leeds CT (40, 41, 43 and 46) enabled Bradford to close the Stanningley tramway in 1942. I know the Regents were two-axled rather than the three-axled Bluebirds (AEC Renowns) you mention, and the dates don’t quite tally with your memories, but three of them were still in Bradford service until late summer 1944 so not too far out…. I don’ know when LT started disposing of its Bluebirds, but maybe the one you mention might have belonged to a local independent, or possibly on loan to a neighbouring operator?
Brendan Smith
13/01/21 – 06:07
London Transport did have 23 ST Regent 4-wheel ‘Bluebirds’, but they were all Country Area vehicles painted in green. None was lent out during the war I’ve also looked at the history of the 273 6-wheel LT Renown ‘Bluebirds’ which were all red. Not one of them was lent out at all during the war, probably because LT mothballed all its petrol-engined buses, which WERE lent out, but almost all the LT’s had diesel engines. Most lasted in revenue-earning service until 1949 and went straight to dealers for scrapping. Much of this information was gleaned from the excellent website ‘Ian’s Bus Stop’.
Chris Hebbron
10/12/20
Chiltern Queens Bus Company
I was just wondering if there still is a Chiltern Queens bus company ?
Paula Martin
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10/12/20 – 10:59
No, sadly, Chiltern Queens got into financial difficulty in 2002 and ceased trading. There is no trace now of their former Woodcote premises
Peter Delaney
10/12/20 – 10:59
Chiltern Queens has morphed through several manifestations and owners. It’s current successor is Thames Travel – owned by Go-Ahead and managed (like the nearby High Wycombe based Carousel) by City of Oxford.
David Oldfield
16/11/20
Rhondda Tramway Staff
I am trying to ascertain whether tramwaymen of Rhondda tramways were ever issued with British Electric Traction Company uniforms following the take-over of the RTCo’s parent company (the NECCo) on the 1st January 1931. Does anyone know who would be able to help with this? Maybe there’s a ‘last day’ photo somewhere?
Ashley
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25/10/20
Stratford Blue Bus Livery
I am trying to ascertain exactly what year that Stratford Blue buses livery was changed from Blue and Cream to Blue and Ivory/White and did the logo change with the colour change?
Paul Meers
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26/10/20 – 06:38
No help to Paul, but thought it was a coincidence that of only two Stagecoach buses I caught a glimpse of on a blustery visit to very rural Charlecote House Saturday, one was 15675 painted in Stratford Blue livery!
Geoff Pullin
26/09/20
Bus services to Penrith from Ousby
I’m an author and am looking for some information about bus services from the Ousby area of Cumberland into Penrith in the 1950s. So far I have drawn a blank. Can anyone help me please?
Gloria Eveleigh
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27/09/20 – 07:08
I don’t have timetables for the 1950s, but in the Ribble area 1 timetable for Winter 1963/64 Ousby was served by Ribble’s rather indirect and slightly different routes 691 and 692 Penrith to Appleby (Penrith-Ousby was common to both). Journey time was 33 minutes. Weekdays : Leaving Penrith at 9.15, 4.05 (not Saturdays) and 6.15, plus Saturday extras at 2.05 (also Tuesdays), 3.05 and 8.30. In the other direction leaving Ousby at 7.39, 10.07, 1.07 and 6.54 (not Saturdays), with Saturday extras at 2.53 (also Tuesdays), 5.12, 7.27 and 9.31. The route from Penrith was Barbara Plains, Edenhall, Langwathby, Little Salkeld, and Winskill. Some did not go through to/from Appleby, but terminated/started at Skirwith or Milburn. No Sunday service.
Stephen Ford
25/09/20
Bedford OWBs GZ Registered
Around 55 Bedford OWBs were delivered to the Northern Ireland Road Transport Board in 1942 to 1945. Whilst researching the operators of west Wales I found that several of those GZ buses came to the area from NIRTB. For instance Morrison, Tenby took perhaps five. Does anyone have a ‘disposals’ list for NIRTB which shows the later users?
Les Dickinson
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26/09/20 – 06:13
There is some discussion on these at http://www.sct61.org.uk/zzgz2248
Might not have the disposals you seek but does have some details of how many there were.
John Lomas
26/09/20 – 13:12
Thanks for that John. I do have the book ‘Buses in Ulster 1935 – 1948 by B C Boyle, a very informative book with complete list of those OWBs in question. There is little info about disposals. That is just a statement, not a criticism. I know from working on my own books that often, the most difficult info to source is the eventual disposal/sale of vehicles. Many just ‘fade away’ without record.
Les Dickinson
26/09/20 – 13:13
Les, there were actually 175 Bedford OWBs delivered to the N.I.R.T.B. between 1942 and 1945.
100 with S.M.T. bodies in 1942/3, and 75 with Duple bodies in 1944/5
Disposals for 147 of them are listed in the P.S.V. Circle Fleet History PI5 dated April 1972.
John Kaye
27/09/20 – 11:18
Thank you John Kaye for that information. Sounds just the job. Tracking down a copy might be a long task but at least I now know what I’m looking for.
Les Dickinson
04/10/20 – 07:10
Les, the NIRTB were not the only GZ registered OWBs as Belfast Corporation had some as well but these largely disappeared after an auction in 1950. I suspect many were rebuilt as lorries.
I have a full list of the NIRTB OWB disposals.
Bill Headley
05/10/20 – 06:25
Bill, when you say you have a full list of NIRTB disposals do you mean you know who and when NIRTB sold them all to in the first place? The [dealer?] route by which so many found their way back to the mainland and were rebodied has not been made public to my knowledge and would be of interest to many people.
MartinI
06/10/20 – 06:39
This has been an ongoing project for some time and draws on information which is available in PSV Circle publication PI5 as well as from the NIRTB fleet record cards for each individual vehicle concerned. At this moment I am aware who the vehicles were sold to before passing on to new owners. Once I have completed this I will make this data available.
The OWBs which Belfast Corporation owned are a different matter These were sold at auction in 1950 with only a handful seeing further use.
If someone has an enquiry about a specific vehicle/s, I will be glad to share what information I have.
Bill Headley
08/10/20 – 06:45
OK Bill can I take up your offer please. There were over 40 GZ OWBs rebodied by SMT in 1948/9, can you tell me to whom and when NIRTB sold the lowest and highest – GZ 574 and GZ 2159. Thanks.
MartinI
09/10/20 – 16:22
GZ 574 (NIRTB V938) was taken out of service and sold to "Murphy" (as recorded on its fleet record card) in August 1948. It was subsequently rebodied by SMT in late 1948 for W.J.Ross, Balblair to O’Brie, Bettyhill and subsequently scrapped.
GZ 2159 (NIRTB X320) was also taken out of service and sold to "Murphy" (as recorded on its fleet record card) in August 1948. It was rebodied by SMT and went to Hope, Terrington in April 1950.
A total of 65 vehicles were acquired by Praills Motors Limited of Holman Road, Hereford for reconditioning. Messrs Murphy and Potter worked for Praills I believe. Praills acquired a total of 65 OWBs from the NIRTB. Martin Perry and myself have been researching this for a long time!
Bill Headley
12/10/20 – 06:17
Thanks Bill. Fascinating, Mr Murphy of course! If you need any help with your efforts MartinP knows where to find me.
MartinI
12/09/20
AEC Regal Chassis 662207
Can anyone tell me the original identity of this AEC Regal chassis which was new in 1937?
Bill Headley
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25/09/20 – 06:30
Is there a digit missing in your post? The PSV Circle lists for 1937 seem to have seven digits each. Maybe that is why no-one has responded.
Les Dickinson
01/10/20 – 06:37
You are indeed correct. It should be 6622077.
Bill Headley
02/10/20 – 06:50
According to my PSV Circle lists, the original owner and details are unknown. Northern Ireland Road Transport Board had it in September 1942 and registered it GZ 701 fleet no Q456. In 1945, they re-bodied it L53RD and a new chassis number was allocated 06617315. fleet number Q102. A new engine in 1950. One guess might be that in 1937 it was an army vehicle and plated as such? Good luck with your search Bill.
Les Dickinson
05/10/20 – 06:28
The Circle list referred to by Les I take to be their 2/10 publication which, in true left hand right hand style, came out in the same month as their ‘British Journal’ on Cheshire registrations. Therein lies the answer, 6622077 was new 1/37 to Yates, Runcorn with an Arthur Mulliner (the Northampton one) C32F body and was last known under that registration in 1940.
MartinI
06/10/20 – 06:24
That would tie in nicely to it being impressed into the RASC in 1940 and then sold to NIRTB in 1942 to become Q456 (GZ 701).
What was the original registration?
Bill Headley
06/10/20 – 17:00
Oh, sorry I accidentally edited that out – it was DMA 892.
MartinI
07/10/20 – 06:45
The MA registration was Chester.
Chris Hebbron
09/10/20 – 16:26
Thank you Martin… Another mystery solved!
Bill Headley
26/04/21 – 06:26
Les – How do you know this vehicle was given a new chassis number? What is the source of this information?
Bill Headley
27/04/21 – 06:14
Bill, The source was PSV circle list C1151 page 105. As Martin points out, this was dated Feb 2010.
Les Dickinson
13/08/20
Blue Roof Lights
I am interested in the usage of blue roof lights on LRCC vehicles pre WWII.
Can anyone give me any info please.
David Miller
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02/07/20
1960’s Glasgow/London Routes
Does anyone have details of the route used by Western SMT coaches between Glasgow and London in the 1960’s. I seem to recall stops in St.Neots, Baldock and perhaps Preston.
Cliff McKinnon
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03/07/20 – 06:04
Cliff, I think there was more than one route.
One that I know of, was Glasgow, A74 south to Carlisle, A6 to Penrith, A66 east to Scotch Corner. A1 south to London.
It may not sound like it, but this was, and still is the shortest route, but not necessarily the quickest.
I dont know about any pick up or drop off points.
Ronnie Hoye
04/07/20 – 07:21
The Summer 1961 ABC Coach & Bus Guide shows the intermediate stops as Hamilton, Gretna, Carlisle, Penrith, Boroughbridge, Doncaster, Newark, Grantham, Stamford, Eaton Socon, Biggleswade, Baldock, Stevenage, Welwyn Garden City, North Finchley and Golders Green. A 19:00 departure from Glasgow reached London at 10:54 the following morning.
Mike Grant
07/06/20
First all Female Bus Crew for United Buses
My mother, Doreen Raw and Grandmother, Olive Vasey were the first all female bus crew for United Buses in Redcar & Cleveland. We believe this was in either the late 60s or the early 70s. We know a photograph of this was taken by a newspaper, possibly The Daily Mirror. We have tried to trace this without success. Would you have any suggestions of where we could continue our search?
Thomas Raw
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08/06/20 – 07:33
Perhaps the United Enthusiasts Club may have a copy in their archive. If you get a copy I would be interested in seeing it. Perhaps you would post it on here ? You can find them here www.unitedenthusiastsclub.co.uk
Stephen Howarth
27/05/20
Great Yarmouth Rolling Advert Screens
I’m trying to locate one of the rolling advert screens that were in the lower saloon of Great Yarmouth Corporation AEC and Leyland deckers, that were withdrawn from service in 1969 – 1971. They had a scroll of local adverts which rotated throughout the journey.
I’ve been told that one was spotted at a bus rally many years ago. Would anyone know my best way to put the feelers out to try and find one. I’m not even sure what their official name is?
Any information that would assist me in locating one, would be greatly appreciated, or whom to ask.
Ian Daniels
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30/05/20 – 06:57
According to Volume 2 of G. G. Hilditch’s autobiography, they were known as Artcem machines. Looking like a television screen, a motor wound a blind past the screen. When it got to the end, the motor would automatically reverse. As to where you would get one, I have no idea.
Nigel Turner
05/05/20
Bolton Corporations MOUNT SKIP 86
Unfortunately I am unable to include a photo ,due to copyright reasons, of Bolton Corporation single decker number 10 (JBN 141) a 1956 Leyland Royal Tiger PSU1/13 with unique (for a single decker) Bond B44F bodywork. It is included in Venture Publications Prestige Series-Bolton Corporation,on page 109.
My query, in which my fellow enthusiasts or transport historians are invited to comment does not refer to the actual vehicle, but to the destination and route number shown on the vehicle, depicted parked up outside Bolton’s Shiffnal Street depot.
The destination shows MOUNT SKIP 86.
Now, Mount Skip was one of the four overspill estates on land purchased in Little Hulton by the corporation of Salford between 1949 and 1962 to replace 4000 plus homes due to be demolished in it’s postwar slum clearance programme.
Mount Skip was soon served in the early to mid 1950’s by the joint Lancashire United/Salford Corporation Transport service number 31, from Manchester (Salford-Greengate) to Walkden (Stocks Hotel) which was extended into Mount Skip and later on by the 91 variant in the early 1960’s.
My question is does anybody know when and for how long did this service, the 86 operate. I have a feeling it didn’t operate into Bolton itself but was between the town shopping centre of Farnworth and Mount Skip, possibly only as a shoppers service on certain days, and maybe at workers’ times. Previously the nearest services into Farnworth would be from the top of Mount Skip area on Cleggs Lane viz. The long 83 former trolleybus route from Atherton and Swinton and the Friday and Saturday route from another estate (Peel Estate – Kenyon Way).
The 86 number might reflect a joint service with LUT perhaps. I only have some LUT fare tables and timetables from 1947, then 1959 onwards and there is no mention of this service or the number 86. Tables in this area show 82 Leigh-Bolton, the aforementioned 83 Atherton-Swinton-Farnworth. 84 Leigh-Mosley Common, no numbers 85 or 86, then the 87/8 Eccles-Trafford Park services
Your comments will be much appreciated.
David Smith
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06/05/20 – 07:15
I lived on Mount Skip from 1951 and can help as follows, I will try to be brief as I have written about the 85 and 85 services for local enthusiasts previously, so here goes. Following the closure of the Railway between Manchester Exchange and Bolton Gt Moor Streret (via Little Hulton) on March 29th 1954, Bolton Chamber of Trade and commerce funded two replacement bus services from Little Hulton to Bolton as a way of supporting local trades in Bolton. The 85 ran by LUT served the Kenyon Way Estate and the 86 ran by Bolton, served the Mount Skip Estate.
Both followed the existing service 12 route that ran from Manchester, via Worsley, Walkden and Little Hulton (where the 85/85 joined it) to Bolton and were timed to run on the xx15 & xx45 past the hours in between the 12 at xx00 and xx30. LUT often used one of their Atkinson saloons and Bolton, at first used one of the OMO converted Crossley saloons. Later on using No 10 a Royal Tiger. As the services were intended for shoppers they ran mostly on Friday afternoons & Saturdays during shop opening hours. There is more, but in keeping this brief, it ended after about 2 years when support dropped off and Bolton Chamber withdrew funding. I am always rather surprised that the service ever existed, as to a family living in Little Hulton and asked where town was, the answer would always be Salford.(Never Bolton) I have the photograph of no 10 that you mention and would advise you also to read the book ‘Plodder Lane for Farnworth’ by Bert Holland, Triangle Publishing 2001 and A Lancashire Triangle (PartII) By D J Sweeney also Triangle Publishing, this later has a photograph of Bolton Crossley No 6 working the 86 service.
Mike Norris
08/05/20 – 06:12
Mike.
Thanks for your quick response. What could be better than having a transport enthusiast and local historian who has actually lived in Mount Skip !
Intriguing reply. I only wish that the large gap (1947-1959) in my LUT time/fare table collection would have included those few years between 1954 and the following few years,then I would have found out earlier !
I did wonder before you replied whether that ex LNWR route from Bolton,Gt.Moor Street to Manchester,Exchange had anything to do with the 86,especially now I see that Little Hulton Station on Manchester Road was very close to the southern edge of Mount Skip.
Intrigued too to know that the 86,and the 85 which I also didn’t know about,was integrated into the 12 Manchester to Bolton service which wandered around a bit from Manchester before arriving in Little Hulton and then continued wandering about into Bolton via Edge Fold and Daubhill.
I can just imagine the residents of the tiny settlement of Edge Fold would be overwhelmed by the plethora of buses into Bolton on a Friday and Saturday,when with the 85 and 86 supplementing the normal 12 there would be a bus every 15 minutes .Overkill indeed,but I suppose we must bear in mind that car ownership was still very low amongst the ‘lower classes'( I hate that term !)in the 1950’s.
Perhaps understandable though as that route did sort of follow that railway route from Little Hulton into Bolton,with one intermediate station at Plodder Lane(for Farnworth,but generally more to the east than the bus service did.
I suppose the logical bus route from Little Hulton into Bolton would be via Farnworth and Moses Gate,or via New Bury and Harper Green,although that routeing would actually have to wait until the mid 60’s when a new service from Leigh to Bolton(partially replacing what was essentially one part of the old 18) was introduced.
I notice from a Wikipedia article that the LNWR proposed naming Little Hulton Station as Eastgate when built,a proposal vetoed by the Little Hulton local board.
Perhaps Mount Skip might have been more appropriate,even though the estate there would be many years in the future!
David Smith
09/05/20 – 06:50
Would you be kind enough to post the attached Time Table for Mr David Smith, it is from the LUT Summer 1962 Timetable.
Mike Norris
03/05/20
Glasgow Fleet of Atlanteans
I am trying to make up a Glasgow fleet of Atlanteans with model buses. I have around 300 including EFE Dinky and Code 3s if possible can anyone give me the route numbers, destinations and fleet number and reg number of each Atlantean. Coupled with that if it was Corporation, Greater Glasgow or Trans Clyde etc and which routes had all over liveries like Barclaycard and the Silver all over Bells, lastly which buses had bustles or flush rears.
Alan McCreery
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20/04/20
Carlisle to Manchester and Back
I was born in Manchester then in the mid 1960’s lived in Carlisle for a few years. We used to travel by coach between Carlisle and Manchester and back to visit family. My memory isn’t what it was and wondered if anybody has details they could share of the route please. It was mostly Ribble coaches and remember Preston, Kendal and Penrith. I seem to remember traveling from Mosley Street to I think Preston on a Lancashire United double decker on one occasion, would this be because the particular journey was busy?
Paul Warnock
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21/04/20 – 05:56
The Manchester to Carlisle coach service was one of the ‘Lancashire-Scottish’ joint services operated by Ribble and Western SMT (through to Glasgow) and Ribble and Eastern Scottish (through to Edinburgh).
There were also comparable services from Liverpool to Glasgow and Edinburgh which often overlapped with those from Manchester on the Preston to Carlisle section.
Ribble, Lancashire United and North Western operated the famous high frequency X60 Manchester-Preston-Blackpool service and if you travelled on a Lancashire United double decker as part of your journey it would probably have been as a result of a shortage of seats on the Manchester to Carlisle direct coach. At Preston you would maybe have changed on to a coach that had come from the Liverpool route.
Probably the most common Ribble coaches operating the Lancashire-Scottish services at the time would have been the Leyland bodied Leyland Royal Tigers new in 1951 which lasted until the mid 1960s and the Burlingham Seagull bodied Leyland Royal Tigers and Tiger Cubs new in the 1954-1956 period which lasted until the latter part of the 1960s.
Here are some links to photographs of those Ribble coaches:
Leyland bodied Royal Tiger at Manchester: www.flickr.com/photos/one
Burlingham Seagull bodied Tiger Cub at Carlisle (in December 1968): www.sct61.org.uk/
Burlingham Seagull bodied Royal Tiger at Manchester: www.flickr.com/photos/two
A link to a photograph of a very basic route diagram for the services mentioned: www.ipernity.com/doc
Hopefully this helps and is of interest
David Slater
26/04/20 – 06:18
David. Thank you very much for your reply regarding my Manchester to Carlisle Coach journey. that has filled a lot of blank bits I couldn’t remember, and yes I found it very interesting.
Paul Warnock
18/04/20
AWW 170G
Can anyone help me with details of C20F coach New in 6-1969 to Gledhall of Tickhill, West Yorkshire. Registration AWW 170G.
It later went to Hadleys Unknown Area.
Later again to Carney of Roker, Sunderland County Durham.
Any further details of transfer ownership dates really appreciated.
Alan Coulson
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19/04/20 – 06:10
Alan, a quick search on Bus Lists On The Web shows AWW 170G as being a Bedford J2SZ10 (chassis no. 9T123152) with Plaxton C20F coachwork (body number 692004). New in 6/69 to Gleadhall, Tickhill. No information is given as to where it went after Gleadhall’s, but hope the details help.
Brendan Smith
21/04/20 – 05:53
I cannot provide a full history, but AWW170G passed from Carney, Roker to Handley, Middleham in April 1974. It was withdrawn by Handley in May 1980 and passed to Wilkinson, Kettlewell by 5/84. It was not used by Wilkinson and was sold by them in 1995.
David Hick
22/04/20 – 07:01
Brendan. Thank you for your input.
David, Thank you to for excellent detail re change of Ownerships exactly what I was looking for. I have a photograph from Carney family album showing Coach to Carney 8-1971. A further photograph after Carney from Internet shows Coach to Handleys.
Thank you both.
Alan Coulson
24/03/20
Duplicate
I have wondered why effort was made in the past to emphasise in destination blinds, or in supplementary displays "Duplicate". Was there some licencing requirement that enforced this rather than just have the additional vehicles display the same destination.
Western National used to be poor at destination displays, there was discussion about this a while back, principally caused when vehicles moved from depot to depot, the origin removed and kept their own local blinds and inserted "shunting blinds", which just had Service, Duplicate, Private, and Western National as indications. On receipt the depot may well not have had any spare blinds of their own, so these stayed in until one was available. But why was Duplicate so important that it was one of these few displays.
Bill Mellor
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26/03/20 – 06:30
From the licensing point of view, it was quite common, especially on heavier routes for there to be restrictions on the number of duplicates which could be run on a particular timing. Such clauses were often the consequence of traffic court arguments with competitors such as British Railways.
Licence conditions might specifically specify shorter diversionary routes which could be used by duplicates to avoid little used stops or congested coach stations.
I’ve no knowledge of the Traffic Commissioners actually policing these detailed licence conditions after the early days of road service licensing but an appropriate vehicle display could help identify what was going on.
I think the practice of marking vehicles as duplicates has more important benefits for the traveller and the operating staff. It highlights vehicles which are not the "service cars" and more liable to engage in unconventional journeys. A cash customer would normally need to travel on the service car to buy a ticket as only that vehicle would generally be equipped for ticket issue. Passengers at an isolated stop need not be concerned if a "duplicate" passed them by as they would be reassured to expect that the principal vehicle would follow. Advantageously, duplicates would often depart and arrive ahead of basic schedule time.
Mike Grant
27/03/20 – 06:41
Birmingham City Transport was famous for its SERVICE EXTRA display which, on older buses without separate number blinds failed spectacularly to show to what service the bus was an extra.
Pete Davies
23/03/20
Bedford TM Recovery
Both Richards Bros, Moylegrove and Jones of Login had a Bedford TM Recovery truck and each was originally registered in Hertfordshire. Are there any OBP correspondents that cross-over into trucks as well? Richards had XUR 740X whilst Jones Login had OUR 551W. I suspect that they both came from the same user. Can anyone tell me who the original owner was please? DVLA have both as 2-Axle = Artic
Les Dickinson
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30/03/20 – 07:45
I also have on my photo database:
OUR 560W with First Cymru
OUR 572W with Hopkins of Tonna.
It looks like OUR-W was a re-registration series. I suspect that they may all be ex-MOD via a Hertfordshire dealer (or direct from MOD).
Dave Farrier
03/04/20 – 07:45
Rush Green Motors of Hitchin and L W Vass of Bedford both deal in second hand HGV’s and could possibly have supplied one or both of these vehicles.
Tricentrol at Dunstable were also truck dealers.
Nick Dasey
04/04/20 – 06:49
Further to my previous reply, according to the "British Army Transport and logistics" published by Ian Allan in 1991, the Army did not use TM artics only rigids.
I will try and see if I can find out anything else.
Nick Dasey
16/03/20
FMO 958 Jones Login
Buses Illustrated 146 May 1967 told in the notes headed United Welsh that "Two ex-Thames Valley single-deckers have gone to local independents too. They are 556 (FMO 938) a B39R bodied LL6B,which is with Precelly, Clynderwen, and similarly bodied LL5G 576 (FMO 958), which has been acquired by Jones of Login".
Of course, Precelly Motors had changed their name to Jones of Login (later Jones Login) so these had both gone to the same operator. Whilst I have seen a number of photographs of FMO 938 with Jones I can find no pictorial evidence of FMO 958 being there. Is anyone able to confirm that both buses went to Jones please.
Les Dickinson
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03/03/20
Major’s Coaches, Worksop
East Midland took over the premises and five vehicles of Major’s Coaches, Worksop, in 1953. Does anyone have details of the five vehicles please?
Les Dickinson
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03/03/20 – 09:49
According to the P.S.V. Circle Fleet History (PB1), the takeover was in 1955, rather than 1953.
The five vehicles were:-
BRD 815 Guy Arab I (A,E,C, 7.7l engine) Strachans L27/28R 1973
GRR 19 Bedford OB Duple B30F 1946
DVD 83 Guy Arab III (6LW) Irvine L27/28R 1948
DFV 244 Dennis Lancet J3 Burlingham C33F 1949
NNN 587 Dennis Lancet J10C Gurney Nutting FC39F 1952
GRR 19 was not numbered but the others were numbered D32, D31, C1 and C28 respectively.
D31, D32 and GRR 19 were withdrawn in 1955, C1 in 1957 and C28 in 1960
John Kaye
03/03/20 – 15:00
Thanks to John Kaye for that speedy reply.
Les Dickinson
04/03/20 – 06:34
I’m fairly sure that, apart from the two coaches, DFV 244 and NNN 587, the two double deckers never operated for East Midland even though they were allocated fleet numbers. I have a photograph of DVD 83, still in Major’s colours but derelict inside Shirebrook Depot.
BRD 815 was interesting in being a Guy Arab with an AEC engine but the fact that it was ex-Reading would account for that. At twelve years old when taken over by East Midland, I doubt they would have found use for it.
I have photographs of all the vehicles and they give the impression that Major’s was a very smart little operator.
Chris Barker
03/03/21 – 06:58
There was another vehicle which seems to be unaccounted for, PVO 958 was a Bedford SBG with Plaxton C36F body, delivered new to Major’s in 6/54. This was not one of the vehicles taken over by East Midland when Majors sold out to them in 1955.
Does anyone know why this coach, which was only just over a year old, was not included in the sale?
Chris Barker
04/03/21 – 06:44
This link to PVO 958 pic. https://thetransportlibrary.co.uk
Les Dickinson
07/03/21 – 06:02
PVO 958 was sold by Major to Richardson, Thorne in December 1954, passing with the business to Harold Wilson Ltd. Stainthorth in February 1964 and sold in November of the same year to Cooper, Annitsford. With Anderson, Westerhope from November 1966 until sold for scrap in June 1968.
David Hick
08/03/21 – 06:25
Thanks, David Hick, for that information, I’m surprised that Majors purchased a new coach and kept it for barely six months before selling it on. Perhaps it wasn’t earning enough revenue to pay for itself!
Chris Barker
25/02/20
Buses in Broughton, Huntingdon
As a young 7 year old I remember visiting my older sister who lived in the village of Broughton, near Huntingdon. I remember the village was poorly served with services only operating on some days (I think market days).
Can anyone tell me which operators would have served the village?
Bill Headley
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27/02/20 – 16:26
Living at Sawtry, I travel through Broughton and the surrounding rural countryside and small hamlets quite often. This very sparse area was served between the wars by A. J. Gill of Godmanchester who ran buses to Abbots Ripton, Kings Ripton, Wood Walton, Wennington, The Raveleys and Upwood, all, apart from the latter which, from 1936, had a large RAF base, very small settlements indeed. I cannot find a record of it, but, being quite close to Kings Ripton, Broughton must have been served on certain journeys also. In the early post WW2 years the Labour government was actively considering nationalising the bus industry, and some operators sought to buy up smaller businesses in the expectation that some nice compulsory purchase compensation might then be forthcoming. On 1 March 1946 Gill was purchased by Arthur Lainson’s Premier Travel who continued the operations at a progressively diminishing level until they withered away entirely by the mid 1960s. Indeed, it is amazing that they lasted that long. I am indebted to Paul Carter’s book on Premier Travel for most of this detail.
Roger Cox
28/02/20 – 06:03
I’ve looked further into this and discovered that Broughton was served, not by Gill/Premier, but by the United Counties routes 216 and 276, and these were still shown on the 1960 route map. Prior to 1 May 1952 these services were run by the Midlands area of Eastern National which was transferred to UCOC on that date.
Roger Cox
03/03/20 – 06:25
Like Roger Cox, I wondered if Broughton had been served by Gill. However a little research has found that it was two other independents that originally operated to the village.
C & R Thurston trading as Progress Motor Service of Stukeley Road, Huntingdon sold out to National Omnibus & Transport Company in June 1926 for £1,755 1s 3d. This included a Huntingdon – Broughton – Old Hurst Circular which gained the service number 47, retaining the number when that part of the NO&T became Eastern National in 1930. By March 1952, there were three round trips on Saturdays. In May of that year, it became United Counties 226. By 1972, it operated as Huntingdon – Sapley – Kings Ripton – Broughton(Church) with two journeys on Thursdays as well as the three on Saturdays.
E. Scott & Son trading as Golden Arrow Service of 55, Great Whyte, Ramsey sold their business to jointly to Eastern National and Eastern Counties in 1934. Eastern National’s share included two St Ives – Ramsey services, the one via Broughton becoming 38A. This was curtailed at Broughton on December 20th 1939 and was then suspended altogether on July 3rd 1940. Reinstatement didn’t come until May 1st 1949. By March 1952 it comprised two return trips on Mondays, operating St. Ives – Wyton Camp – Broughton. On passing to United Counties it became service 217 but twenty years later it had become part of 216 St. Ives – Wyton Camp – Broughton(Folly Turn) – Broughton (Church) – Folly Turn – Old Hurst – Warboys – St. Ives, still with two journeys on Mondays.
At some point in the 1970s, Eastern Counties and United Counties rearranged their routes in the area so that by October 1982, Broughton was served by ECOC Service 131 "St. Ives Pick-Me-Up" operating Abbotts Ripton – Kings Ripton – Broughton Church – Old Hurst – St.Ives on Mondays only and ECOC Service 135 "Huntingdon Pick-Me-Up" operating Gt. Raveley – Abbotts Ripton – Broughton Church – Kings Ripton – Huntingdon on Thursdays.
The situation was similar in 1984 but unfortunately I don’t have details for services in later years.
Nigel Turner
05/02/20
Yorkshire Woollen District Leyland Tigers
When I was an infant in the early fifties I used to travel from Brighouse to Hartshead and back on Yorkshire Woollen District Leyland Tigers (I wasn’t aware of the detailed stuff then) but I do remember very clearly that they had rear entrance/exits. I cannot find any photos or details of these rear entrance single deckers anywhere. Is this a figment of my imagination or can anyone confirm that YWD did have this type of configuration and what the details were. Any info is appreciated.
Keith Hartley
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10/02/20 – 06:55
I don’t think YWD ran any rear entrance single dockers in the fifties however they did run MCW rebodied double deck rear entrance Tigers known to staff as salmon cans or tin cans because of their all metal body
John Blackburn
01/03/20 – 06:26
Could these deckers have been rear entrance prior to re bodying?
Keith Hartley
02/03/20 – 06:52
According to the Bus Lists on the Web site, Yorkshire Woollen received two batches of Leyland TS7s in 1935 totalling 11 vehicles, of which 10 were rebodied by Willowbrook as rear-entrance in 1949. These were 337-40 (HD 5617-20) and 345/7-51 (HD 5801/3-7). The tenth vehicle, 346 (HD 5802) received a Burlingham front-entrance body instead.
Peter Williamson
03/03/20 – 10:55
The PSV Circle fleet history for Yorkshire Woollen shows them as fitted with front-entrance bodies when rebodied. However, in this instance BLOTW is correct as they were fitted with rear-entrance bodies – see https://thetransportlibrary.co.uk/ .
However, these Willowbrook bodies were not fitted until after they were sold to East Midland in 1949 so would not have been encountered in Brighouse. The fleet history indicates that Yorkshire Woollen were exclusively in favour of front-entrance bodies on their single-deck fleet.
Their 1935 Tigers had interesting later lives. Withdrawn in 1947-49 they were eagerly snapped up by other BET group operators with ten going to East Midland, nine going to Western Welsh, two to Ribble and no less than twenty-five to Northern General.
David Beilby
24/03/20 – 06:29
Thx everybody for your comments and info. Is it possible that one or more rebody was retained (in ywd red livery!) until a later date? Born in 1949 I remain convinced that I rode a ywd rear entrance Tiger and the picture of HD 8506 is the first I have seen since. Of course in the 50’s PS1/PS2 Tigers and Olympics ran mainly on the Brighouse/Hartshead route until the arrival of the AEC Reliances.
Keith Hartley
30/01/20
Newcastle upon Tyne Bus
I hope you can help me here. I came across a photo of a Leyland Titan on Facebook. The bus is No9 and has come across Tyne Bridge heading towards Blakelaw Estate and the caption says the year was 1950. I think this is wrong as I lived in Blakelaw prefabs from 1948. I remember the service starting and don’t think could be 1950 as I was only 4 years old that year. Also I have a plan of the estate dated 1950 and there is no access for a bus from Ponteland Road. When the service started the access was along Gorse Hill Avenue
I would love to know the year the bus first came into Blakelaw Estate
David
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31/01/20 – 06:15
The no. 9 Blakelaw Estate service commenced in October 1953. It had started in March 1950 as part of the Wrekenton and Heworth tram replacement services, running initially from Beacon Lough Estate only as far as Queen Victoria Road/Claremont Road junction aka ‘Museum’, before extending to Blakelaw in 1953.
The 9 was part of the joint services operated with Gateshead & District but hardly ever saw a Gateshead vehicle. Conversely, the 14 to Matthew Bank for example was always operated by just Gateshead. That operating agreement must have been quite a document!
Tony Fox
27/01/20
Registrations
With little knowledge of them I ask can anyone enlighten me with the following KKX 28 known to be new 7-1947 to Jeffways.
I recently came across KKW 489 showing new in 7-1954 to Emmerson.
Am I miss reading something I ask, would KKW not be before KKX (gap of 7 years).
I am led to believe KX/KW be allocated to areas of different county’s.
I am convinced KKX 28 is correct re 1947.
Any explanation would be gratefully accepted.
Alan Coulson
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28/01/20 – 06:14
The dates you quote are correct, but KKW and KKX were completely unrelated as they were issued by different authorities. Prior to 1974, registrations were issued by county councils and county borough councils. Each of these was allocated one or more two-letter marks, which, during the period in question, would be preceded by an extra letter.
Bradford (county borough council) had AK, KU, KW and KY. Their issuing sequence around 1952-5 was JAK, JKU, JKW, JKY, KAK, KKU, KKW, KKY, LAK etc.
Buckinghamshire (county council) had BH, KX and PP. Their issuing sequence around 1946-8 was JBH, JKX, JPP, KBH, KKX, KPP, LBH etc.
Peter Williamson
28/01/20 – 06:17
KKX *** was Buckinghamshire start date July ’47. reversed as *** KKX start date Oct ’59. Also used 3 times with year letters C, G & L suffix.
KKW was Bradford and only used once before year letters were applied, used once with an L suffix.
Presumably Bradford had a larger number of possible combinations.
John Lomas
28/01/20 – 16:11
Peter & John.
Thank you both for quick reply’s explanation gratefully accepted.
In the event of others supplying further data I extend the above thanks.
Alan Coulson
27/01/20
Service Buses in Malta
Is anyone aware of any book which gives a full and definitive all-time fleet list of Service Buses in Malta please?
Les Dickinson
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28/01/20 – 06:18
One book I can recommend is ‘The Malta Buses’ by Joseph Bonnici and Michael Cassar (Published in Malta, 1989).
It is an A4 size book about 1.5cm thick and is copiously illustrated. As far as I am aware with just about a photograph of every single bus. (I am working from memory here as my copy is out of reach at present). AbeBooks.co.uk appear to have a few for sale on their website each priced around £5.
David Slater
28/01/20 – 16:13
Thanks for your advice David.
Les Dickinson
29/01/20 – 05:42
I’d second that recommendation. I was given a copy a few years ago by family members who’d been there on holiday. At the end of the book, there’s a photographic record of every Malta bus from 1945 to 1980, with it’s make and number. The text deals with matters from the beginning in 1905.
Michael Hampton
20/01/20
Old Bus Route No 111, Finsbury Park to Muswell Hill
For a local history project I’m trying to find out when the old No 111 bus route began running from Finsbury Park to Muswell Hill and when it ended.
Any information anyone has on this route would be so helpful. I have photos of the old buses but know nothing more.
Pat Storey
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21/01/20 – 06:59
This link should give you the information you require, plus more! www.red-rf.com/red_rf_routes/crew_routes
Chris Hebbron
03/01/20
C F Trott Nettleham Lincs
I am trying to find some information on a Lincolnshire operator, C F TROTT of Nettleham near Lincoln. Did they run a service into Lincoln and when did they cease?
I have seen a photo in PSV circle Historic Journal about 2016/2017 of a normal control single decker on a service into Lincoln in 1954 I think but I don’t have the journal now. Maybe Trotts but I can’t be sure.
Any information would be helpful.
Geoff Clayton
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21/01/20 – 07:11
C F Trott, The Garage, Nettleham ran a regular bus service from there to Lincoln. Timetable from the late 1920s attached. Trotts ran small Commer buses in the 1930s, then Bedford OB coaches in the 1940s and 1950s, moving to larger Bedford coaches. The service was taken over by Parkers Coaches by about 1972, but I don’t know what happened to it after that. I have a number of pictures, but they are not mine so cannot go on the website.
John Bennett
